Why is there no ring film of Harry Greb?

[JAB5239]

I am too!! I wouldn't share this because it sounds counter intuitive but since it came up I may as well.

Never had me anything like a real fight, so, the **** do I know really? But for human connection sake and relation to Dempsey; I find sparring HWs easy work, guys my size seem more fair, and guys smaller than me seem to be the hardest thing to deal with. HWs are so big and their fists are so big they just move me. They don't really hurt so much. Guys my size, 150s-180s, hurt like hell but don't have much speed advantage. Smaller guys, 140 and under make me nervous because I'm gonna punch a lot of wind and get hit often.

I'm as much of a bully as I can manage to be. Bit hard to push around a HW, but it is easy to be there in an exchange, their punches come in slow motion. So I'm very confident I can get off a few and get away without taking anything damaging. I might get moved across a small ring plumb to the other side though and positioned for one that does ring my bell a bit, but even then, it's just not as bad as small guys. I'm usually about 160 myself, I don't feel like I have much power advantage over 150s and don't feel overpowered by 180s, the speed is about the same too so I can bully them or just get shown I can't. Hurts a little more to eat one, but I can bully so much better I don't really worry about it.

Small guys light me up from bell to bell. Move too fast, don't feel like nothing until they do. I know it'll be a while before I get a 130 slowed down enough to really hit, push, hold, whatever bull**** tactic I'm trying. They're too fast and have enough weight to still do damage when they commit to doing damage.


If I was a pro I'd assume I'd be more comfortable giving up weight than getting the weight advantage. In my experience weight's a huge disadvantage. You're stuck in slow motion. I like being fast and hitting hard enough and hate sparring a guy who has that juxta on me. Well, hate's a strong word....I really like seeing others do well and can be happy for them but I hate being shown how bad I suck


Maybe skills, real skills from real dedication, makes it very different, I dunno, Rockin' might, but in my small world small guys are hell.

Small guys are hell. I didn't get a fight on the last card, but hoping to get one on the next. My trainer asked me if I wanted to cut weight or fight heavyweight. I told him heavyweight all day. They're slower and run out of gas faster. I can't speak on Dempsey's mindset when it comes to this, but I certainly know what mine is, especially when it come to fighters who are trained. Give me the small guy in the street any day. But in the ring....I'll fight the big guys.

[JAB5239]

What might that be ?

We have a survey but Greb's not on it - we have one offer but it is way too low - so what might that "way to do it" be?

I know I've posted the survey before but I don't remember the year. Can someone tell me the year again?

[GhostofDempsey]

You keep circling back to Greb's money at his passing. That has nothing to do with his value as a fighter. You still haven't answered how Tyson or Holyfield would look if they never fought Hagler and Hagler was beating guys they fought before they fought them? Remember, you put that out there. You also haven't commented on Fitzsimmons-Jeffries. Those two fights have certainly elevated Jeffries, and there was a bigger weight discrepancy than there would have been with Dempsey-Greb.

I never thought much of either Fitz or Jeffries to be honest. That era of boxing was not as populated with evenly matched competition. It was all over the place.

The hypothetical you present regarding Hagler and Tyson was played out more favorably when Tyson defeated Spinks as I mentioned earlier. Tyson never receives the credit he deserves for beating Spinks. Detractors insist Spinks was too small, while only giving up six pounds of weight and having a height reach advantage over Tyson. He was an undefeated champion who twice beat Holmes. Tyson himself beat Holmes AFTER Spinks had already beaten him twice. No one gives Tyson credit for beating the "smaller" Spinks. Do you really think anyone would give credit to Dempsey for beating a smaller Greb? Tunney certainly doesn't get a big deal of credit for beating Greb, and Tunney was a LHW at the time.

[GhostofDempsey]

My God T you just called yourself Fox News "fair and balanced " and me 'fake news' -- think about that.

PS I included you because I like u.

Are you surprised. He lied through his teeth on that entire post. The guy who defends Mayweather, Johnson and Wills to the very death accuses us of defending Dempsey at all costs. At least we provide actual sources and references. Dempsey did indeed agree to fight Wills on three occasions. First two Wills people didn't deliver. The third, Dempsey did him a favor. Wills ducks Tunney and his best payday ever only to get mauled by Sharkey, who Dempsey KO'd. By 1926 it was all over for Wills. He was more interested in lawsuits than actual fights.

You can't argue with people who already have their minds made up before they type the first word. Or insist on having the last word at all costs.

[Willie Pep 229]

I know I've posted the survey before but I don't remember the year. Can someone tell me the year again?

I thought it was 1922 but I only think that.-- if it was 1926 then Gibbons coming in second would mean the populace wanted a rematch to a stinker but maybe - fans never actually saw the fight so maybe they thought the decision was close.

In regards to Greb's absence on the survey that is not a slam dunk argument in my favor at all - the group that put the survey together may have chosen themselves to include only HWs.

I thought it was 'fox news' T who had posted the survey. It was part if one of our endless Wills debates I tgought.

[Willie Pep 229]

Geez. You just stepped back into "the times" huh? lol.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not offended nor do I think it's a dirty word (kinda), but it just stuck out like a sore thumb. lol.



Why am I dragged into it. I thought I've been fair. I stated that you have a point about following the offers. My only question was whether the offers were just shut down because Dempsey was so protected by the people around him.

Jab has great points as well, and he's backed it up with a lot of information. And he stated his viewpoint regarding why he believes this was a duck. He also applies it to Johnson and states that's why he believes Johnson ducked Langford. I obviously disagree because Johnson agreed to fight Langford 3 times and the fight didn't come off any of those three times due to reasons not his fault, including Langford's team being responsible for two such occasions being missed. But certainly Jab is entitled to his opinion. I lean toward this (Greb/Dempsey) not being labeled a duck on Dempsey's part because for whatever reasons the offers weren't there, but I am very su****ious that this was because of the usual suspects protecting him (and I don't give him a pass for allowing them to protect him). But what's interesting about guys like you and GhostofDempsey is that you will take up for Dempsey no matter what point of view is taken regarding ducking. GhostofDemspey stated above that Dempsey signed to fight Wills but he knows that it was BS the first time he signed and the second was connected to the third in which Dempsey blatantly broke the contract. He's still claiming the money wasn't present (which even you acknowledged, I believe, that it was present) and it's been proven that is false, yet he still claims that is the case because he can't handle the truth. You claim it was "the times" that didn't allow the Wills fight, but Jab proved to you that wasn't the case with the poll that you have referred to in this argument yourself.

So really, you guys should just admit that no matter what, you are incapable of being honest about Dempsey and he could never do any wrong in your eyes. If you single out the offers not being present for the reason Dempsey didn't duck Greb, and refer to the poll taken by the public, I have no idea how you can still take the stance that Dempsey didn't duck Wills. Just keep it real and admit you will continue to be biased for Dempsey no matter what is presented.

I have been listening to William Manchester's The Glory and the Drean a history of the USA from 1932 to 1972 - it is a great book but he doesn't include any boxing except Louis and the war.

He wrote the book in the mid 70s and he employs a strange method where he uses the polite term for Bkacks based on what period he is discussing. I guess it subconsciously rubbed off. It, Negro seems to make the point better especially when taking about past racism. It isn't rude or hatfulbut you can hear that dog whistle racism non the less. I thought it the right word to use to make that point.

P.S. he keeps calling Japanese "Nips" and doesn't seem to think it wrong.

[JAB5239]

I thought it was 1922 but I only think that.-- if it was 1926 then Gibbons coming in second would mean the populace wanted a rematch to a stinker but maybe - fans never actually saw the fight so maybe they thought the decision was close.

In regards to Greb's absence on the survey that is not a slam dunk argument in my favor at all - the group that put the survey together may have chosen themselves to include only HWs.

I thought it was 'fox news' T who had posted the survey. It was part if one of our endless Wills debates I tgought.

I found it in another thread but don't see a date on it. Incidentally, Tunney's name isn't one of the listed either.

[Willie Pep 229]

I found it in another thread but don't see a date on it. Incidentally, Tunney's name isn't one of the listed either.

Absence of Tunney makes me think that makes it more likely to be 1922 not 1926.

1922 Tunney was a 175 pound LHW.

[JAB5239]

Absence of Tunney makes me think that makes it more likely to be 1922 not 1926.

1922 Tunney was a 175 pound LHW.

So we're Gibbons and Carpentier. Brennan was not a big heavyweight and had been beaten several times by Greb. Roper was 35-28-8 and had also been beaten by Greb several times. Willard hadn't fought in there years at that point after losing to Dempsey, and I don't even know who Martin is.

The more I think about it, the more it looks like a list of guys that were seem to beat beatable, or have a way out of not making the fight as was the case with Wills. Seriously, no Greb or Tunney at that time, but these guys? Rickard and Kearns never intended to fight Wills, and the rest are easy touches compared to Greb and Dempsey, especially after Greb's past with Sparring and what the future would hold for Dempsey against Tunney. I have no way of know or proving, but I would bet the list was made by Dempseys camp and sent to newspapers to be voted on.

[Marchegiano]

I don't think it's hard to promote Greb as a viable HW contender even if the public was HW-centric because he'd beaten so many who were HW contenders.

Spink and Tyson is very different than Greb and Dempsey because Spinks didn't beat the guys Tyson beat before he beat them.... well except Holmes.

Greb beat Miske in 1919

Jack gave Miske a title fight in 1920

Greb beat Brennan in 1919

Jack gave Bill Brennan a title shot in 1920

Greb beat Gibbons in 1921

Jack gave Gibbons a title shot in 1922

You're telling me this is a hard fight to promote and get credit from the fans and Miske, Brennan, and Gibbons were easier names for Dempsey's team to promote as valid contenders? I'm not buying that **** at all.

If SRR beat up Moore, Charles, and Matthews then lost a bid against Rocky at HW, not only would he be one of Marciano's beat wins, he'd be one of the best LHWs ever too.

It's crazy to me to suggest that juxtaposition to the champion doesn't have obvious merit. Dempsey should have fought Greb. In 1922 Tunney hasn't beaten Greb yet. It's an easy sell. Hell, in 22 Norfolk hasn't beaten Greb yet either and is putting pressure on the champion for a fight. Norfolk beats up Dempsey training partners Tate and Gahee, respected HWs in Jeff Clark and Joe Jeanette, and former Dempsey vanquisher John Lester from like 1918-1921. Greb puts the breaks on Norfolk's momentum and Wills ends it. A win over Greb would have given Dempsey plenty to brag about in 1922.