Why is there no ring film of Harry Greb?

[Willie Pep 229]

I love to post it? I think I posted it once or twice. Honestly, I don't think any version of Langford was easy for anyone. I think Kearns meant exactly what he said. I certainly don't buy that Kearns believed Dempsey could beat anyone....or at least I think he believed that he could lose to any of the guys he helped him steer clear of.

The phrase is just rhetoric -- Why would you think that? You just said you believe Doc Kearns! . . . I got a bridge you might want to buy.

No Kearns believed Dempsey was unbeatable - you think duck, Kearns was fixated on money.

[travestyny]

The phrase is just rhetoric -- Why would you think that? You just said you believe Doc Kearns! . . . I got a bridge you might want to buy.

No Kearns believed Dempsey was unbeatable - you think duck, Kearns was fixated on money.

I believe they obviously wanted no part of Langford. Old, young, half blind, whole blind, half dead. Whatever. No way.

[JAB5239]

We can play mental gymnastics all day long. But nowhere in boxing history outside of Jack Johnson does anyone give credit to a HW beating a MW. Again, Dempsey stood to gain nothing fighting Greb. Look at a more modern example. To this day Tyson does not get full credit for taking out Spinks in one round, despite Spinks being considered one of the greatest LHW of all time and a bonafide HW at the time they fought. Tyson only weighed six pounds more than Spinks. No way would Dempsey get praised for a win over Greb. Tunney certainly doesn’t. Imagine Marciano beating Robinson, he’d be laughed out of the ring.

You’d have to go back in your time machine and ask Rickard about the match making. Dempsey defeated Brennen before he ever fought Greb. He defeated Miske first too. The last Gibbons/Greb fight was a flop. From the United Press: As a fight it was a disappointment. It was furiously fast and hotly contested, but the impression stood out all over that either one would be easy for Dempsey. All of them were closer in size and weight to Dempsey too.

So Jeffries get no credit for beating Fitzsimmons? Fitz was at an even greater weight disadvantage, but Jeffries is given all due respect for his two fights with him. You show no sources claiming this fight wouldn't draw, you just keep repeating it thinking it sounds convincing. Dempsey's team saying it means little as well. They'd probably say anything to avoid Harry....that seven year itch!!

[Willie Pep 229]

So Jeffries get no credit for beating Fitzsimmons? Fitz was at an even greater weight disadvantage, but Jeffries is given all due respect for his two fights with him. You show no sources claiming this fight wouldn't draw, you just keep repeating it thinking it sounds convincing. Dempsey's team saying it means little as well. They'd probably say anything to avoid Harry....that seven year itch!!

Again how can somebody prove a negative?

The proof that the fight might not draw lies in the absence of offers/guarantees. One can't show you primary sources that say the fight wouldn't draw, there just isn't any logic why the newspapers would have such a conversation, and if we found such a statement it would just be an opinion, nothing more.

Follow the money, then, now, always.

People saying stuff doesn't make it so, watch what they do not what they say.

[GhostofDempsey]

So Jeffries get no credit for beating Fitzsimmons? Fitz was at an even greater weight disadvantage, but Jeffries is given all due respect for his two fights with him. You show no sources claiming this fight wouldn't draw, you just keep repeating it thinking it sounds convincing. Dempsey's team saying it means little as well. They'd probably say anything to avoid Harry....that seven year itch!!

When Greb died he left behind an estate valued at $77K. Which was lowered by half at probate. Harry was a great MW, but he wasn’t a great earner. You seem to forget boxing’s #1 moniker of the day....PRIZEFIGHTING! Greb’s paydays against Tunney were something like $17K. Dempsey had more than that lost between his sofa cushions. lol.

[JAB5239]

When Greb died he left behind an estate valued at $77K. Which was lowered by half at probate. Harry was a great MW, but he wasn’t a great earner. You seem to forget boxing’s #1 moniker of the day....PRIZEFIGHTING! Greb’s paydays against Tunney were something like $17K. Dempsey had more than that lost between his sofa cushions. lol.

Since he and his team avoided fighting him we can never say how well they would have drawn. But there was obvious interest in the fight. And if Dempsey had all that money in his cushions as you have so eloquently stated, than he could afford to fight for pride after being embarrassed by Greb in sparring. I'll as you again.....how was there more interest in men Greb had already bested? What did they get paid? Is there any source that says Greb wouldn't draw as much as these other guys?

[JAB5239]

Again how can somebody prove a negative?

The proof that the fight might not draw lies in the absence of offers/guarantees. One can't show you primary sources that say the fight wouldn't draw, there just isn't any logic why the newspapers would have such a conversation, and if we found such a statement it would just be an opinion, nothing more.

Follow the money, then, now, always.

People saying stuff doesn't make it so, watch what they do not what they say.

How can you prove the fight wouldn't draw? I can prove Dempsey fought lesser fighting men. I can also prove Greb beat the wheels off him in sparring. So how do we know the fight wouldn't draw?

[Willie Pep 229]

How can you prove the fight wouldn't draw? I can prove Dempsey fought lesser fighting men. I can also prove Greb beat the wheels off him in sparring. So how do we know the fight wouldn't draw?

I repeat I can't prove a negative - you have to prove the fight could have drawn but you have no offers to show and Greb doesn't even appear on the fan survey T posted.

Pressure is on you to take your argument pass opinion; I can not prove a negative, no one can.

'Beat the wheels off him" a bit overstated, no?

[ShoulderRoll]

I love to post it? I think I posted it once or twice. Honestly, I don't think any version of Langford was easy for anyone. I think Kearns meant exactly what he said. I certainly don't buy that Kearns believed Dempsey could beat anyone....or at least I think he believed that he could lose to any of the guys he helped him steer clear of.

“The hell I feared no man. There was one man, he was even smaller than I, and I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.”
-Jack Dempsey

[JAB5239]

I repeat I can't prove a negative - you have to prove the fight could have drawn but you have no offers to show and Greb doesn't even appear on the fan survey T posted.

Pressure is on you to take your argument pass opinion; I can not prove a negative, no one can.

'Beat the wheels off him" a bit overstated, no?

There is no pressure on me. I've made my points and backed them up. People talking about being a draw and paydays....gimme a break! Tunney was a draw and bringing in the money? He made less than $6000 for his second fight with Greb. Fact is, Dempsey was the cash cow. He dictated who he wanted or didn't want to fight. He certainly didn't want to fight Greb, and both Rickard and Kearns are on record saying the wanted no part of Greb. If he could make money fighting guys Greb already beat, he would have made money fighting harry. Especially after 2000 spectators witnessed Harry have his way in sparring and the press reporting it.