Post You All-Time Great Lists! (No Trolls)

[JAB5239]

Nice list all in my top 20

Thank you sir. Funny thing is though, this list could be different tomorrow. Besides Robinson being number one my p4p list constantly changing.

[GJC]

I totally reserve the right to amend my list on a whim too. SRR is cemented in at no. 1 and few guys like pep and duran are always there after that it's fairly fluid.

[Boxing_12]

My personal all-time p4p list:

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Roberto Duran
05. Henry Armstrong
06. Alexis Arguello
07. Benny Leonard
08. Ray Leonard
09. Pernell Whitaker
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Joe Gans
12. Roy Jones
13. Pascual Perez
14. Eder Jofre
15. Miguel Canto
16. Carlos Zarate
17. Charley Burley
18. Marvin Hagler
19. Jimmy Wilde
20. Willie Pepp

Dude, i know your intitled to your a opinion and all. But there is a few things I have against your list.

First off why is Arguello, Perez, Canto, Jones Jr and Burley so damn high. And why the hell is Carlos Zarate in it?

And were the hell is the following fighters Harry Greb, Micky Walker, Carlos Monzon, Julio Cesar Chavez, Archie Moore, Barney Ross, and why the hell is Willie Pep so low.

Am just amazed how you can have Carlos Zarate higher than the likes of Greb, Walker, Chavez, Monzon and Pep. When he was now were near them as a fighter.

I also feel Greb, Walker, Monzon, Chavez, Pep, and Moore, sould be higher than Arguello, Perez, Canto, Jones Jr and Burley.

Please Explain with some valid reason, and I am not being a troll, I hope to have real boxing conversation with no insults.

[StarshipTrooper]

Dude, i know your intitled to your a opinion and all. But there is a few things I have against your list.

First off why is Arguello, Perez, Canto, Jones Jr and Burley so damn high. And why the hell is Carlos Zarate in it?

And were the hell is the following fighters Harry Greb, Micky Walker, Carlos Monzon, Julio Cesar Chavez, Archie Moore, Barney Ross, and why the hell is Willie Pep so low.

Am just amazed how you can have Carlos Zarate higher than the likes of Greb, Walker, Chavez, Monzon and Pep. When he was now were near them as a fighter.

I also feel Greb, Walker, Monzon, Chavez, Pep, and Moore, sould be higher than Arguello, Perez, Canto, Jones Jr and Burley.

Please Explain with some valid reason, and I am not being a troll, I hope to have real boxing conversation with no insults.

As a general rule I rate lower weight classes as producing p4p better fighters than the higher ones. Notice the highest ranked Light-Heavy is at #10? And of the top 10 only one natural Middleweight (Fitzsimmons) made it?

Greb, Monzon, and Chavez I don't think that highly of. Simple as that. I have Greb ranked #7 and Monzon at #9 at Middleweight. I have Chavez ranked #10 at Lightweight. While I acknowledge them as ATGs none of them crack my top 5 in their respective best weight classes so I'm not going to put them in my top 20 p4p.

Now clearly I think highly enough of Pep to have him crack my top 20 p4p so I'm not sure what the beef is there. Some posters would say I have Jones ranked FAR too low as they consider him the p4p GOAT. Burley has been regarded as the best ever by no less than Eddie Futch so I would say I'm in pretty good company there. There seems as well to be a bit of underrating of Arguello recently on Boxing Scene. It wasn't that long ago when he was held in much higher regard so I find it somewhat surprising that my placement of him has come under fire. Perez, Canto, and even Zarate are three fighters from the lowest weight classes that not many seem to know much about so it's not very surprising that some might consider my placement of them controversial.

Poet

[Boxing_12]

As a general rule I rate lower weight classes as producing p4p better fighters than the higher ones. Notice the highest ranked Light-Heavy is at #10? And of the top 10 only one natural Middleweight (Fitzsimmons) made it?

Greb, Monzon, and Chavez I don't think that highly of. Simple as that. I have Greb ranked #7 and Monzon at #9 at Middleweight. I have Chavez ranked #10 at Lightweight. While I acknowledge them as ATGs none of them crack my top 5 in their respective best weight classes so I'm not going to put them in my top 20 p4p.

Now clearly I think highly enough of Pep to have him crack my top 20 p4p so I'm not sure what the beef is there. Some posters would say I have Jones ranked FAR too low as they consider him the p4p GOAT. Burley has been regarded as the best ever by no less than Eddie Futch so I would say I'm in pretty good company there. There seems as well to be a bit of underrating of Arguello recently on Boxing Scene. It wasn't that long ago when he was held in much higher regard so I find it somewhat surprising that my placement of him has come under fire. Perez, Canto, and even Zarate are three fighters from the lowest weight classes that not many seem to know much about so it's not very surprising that some might consider my placement of them controversial.

Poet

So could you please explain your reasons for not really rating Greb, Walker, Monzon and Chavez?

[StarshipTrooper]

So could you please explain your reasons for not really rating Greb, Walker, Monzon and Chavez?

As far as Greb goes, I don't generally think that highly of the "human windmill" type fighters (I don't think that highly of Pryor for example). The only one I can think of that makes the tops of my lists in Henry Armstrong.

Monzon, on the other hand, reminds me of a smaller version of Victor Galindez. Carlos wasn't outstanding in any area in particular but had didn't really have any weaknesses either; which to me is kind of like backing one's way into greatness. Without any real outstanding traits to put my finger on (other than maybe his toughness) I can't really justify making him a top 5 Middleweight though in my book his results clearly justify a top 10 ranking.

Chavez was a tough fighter and I give him credit for it but his lack of any kind of defense makes him suspect in my eyes (much in the way Marciano does). While I consider him an all-time great I have a hard time justifying a top 5 ranking for someone who ate as many punches as he did. Some might point to his 100 wins but I would also point out that much of that record was achieved by beating local toughman in obscure Mexican towns: Rather similer to the way Tommy Morrison and Peter McNeely inflated their records.

Poet

[Stoppage]

As a general rule I rate lower weight classes as producing p4p better fighters than the higher ones. Notice the highest ranked Light-Heavy is at #10? And of the top 10 only one natural Middleweight (Fitzsimmons) made it?

I don't get it. How come lower weight classed fighters are automatically better fighters than heavyweights?

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't get it. How come lower weight classed fighters are automatically better fighters than heavyweights?

Because historically that's the way it's always been. They are generally faster for their size than Heavyweights, usually have a better skill set, and by and large have a much higher work rate.

Poet

[Boxing_12]

As far as Greb goes, I don't generally think that highly of the "human windmill" type fighters (I don't think that highly of Pryor for example). The only one I can think of that makes the tops of my lists in Henry Armstrong.

Monzon, on the other hand, reminds me of a smaller version of Victor Galindez. Carlos wasn't outstanding in any area in particular but had didn't really have any weaknesses either; which to me is kind of like backing one's way into greatness. Without any real outstanding traits to put my finger on (other than maybe his toughness) I can't really justify making him a top 5 Middleweight though in my book his results clearly justify a top 10 ranking.

Chavez was a tough fighter and I give him credit for it but his lack of any kind of defense makes him suspect in my eyes (much in the way Marciano does). While I consider him an all-time great I have a hard time justifying a top 5 ranking for someone who ate as many punches as he did. Some might point to his 100 wins but I would also point out that much of that record was achieved by beating local toughman in obscure Mexican towns: Rather similer to the way Tommy Morrison and Peter McNeely inflated their records.

Poet

So you base your ratings more on styles than accomplishments? And why do you make one rule for Armstrong but not for Greb. No matter what style Greb had, he should bea top 10 fighter for his ACCOMPLISHMENTS

[StarshipTrooper]

So you base your ratings more on styles than accomplishments? And why do you make one rule for Armstrong but not for Greb. No matter what style Greb had, he should bea top 10 fighter for his ACCOMPLISHMENTS

Any ranking I make is based on how I see that fighter's ABILITY. It's not based on overall achievements (ie. world titles, # of defenses, ect.) Now who one has beaten is verly likely to influence how I see that fighter's ability but in general I consider a fighter's resume to be a separate discussion.

Poet