Does anyone on here think Muhhamad Ali is overrated?

[TheGreatA]

Probably the most beautiful display of boxing in history.

I don't want to hear about Williams' physical problems either...would it have been any different if he was healthy...or if it was folley, patterson, etc?

I'd say so.

On paper a prime Cleveland Williams sounds like a tough match-up for Ali, since he had quick hands, great punching power, particularly in his left hook, and good stamina.

The Williams Ali fought should have by all means been in the cemetary instead of a world title fight, yet somehow, almost miraculously, he was able to fight again, despite nearly dying 3 times on the operating table and coming back from being starved down to 150 pounds.

No one can say that it wasn't a brilliant performance by Ali, regardless of the opponent, he could have fought a 60 year old Joe Louis for all I care and I'd still call it that. But he was in there against an opponent who offered nothing and was basically a punching bag in the ring.

If you watch the version of the fight with Ali commentating over it, you'll hear him say that the performance should prove nothing to the public because Williams was all washed up. These were his own words.


5:20

[Slimey Limey]

You were arguing with ***** who said that Ali was thinking of quitting against Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila.

I brought up Ali-Liston I in which Ali did think of quitting.

I never said he actually quit but in my view neither did Robinson. I've already explained why.



I compared the situations because both men would have put themselves at risk by continuing, thankfully they didn't. It was obvious by the 10th, 11th and 12th rounds already that Robinson was drained, yet he kept fighting while staggering around the ring. Fought until the end, until he had nothing left.



Maxim didn't fight any differently in round 1 than he did in round 13. He was flicking out the jab and clinching, which is what he always does. What can't be taken away from Maxim is that he was very smart and very patient but he was not a man who would come after you and try to knock you out.
If you actually watched the fight and knew their styles you would know.



Except I have always admired the man's durability. It's mostly because of his fights against Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott though, he could absorb a trendemous punch and had the heart and will to always go the distance.

Of course Robinson's effort vs Maxim is brought up, because he was challenging for a light heavyweight title, going up in weight to a 4th weight class (unheard of at the time aside from Armstrong) when there were only 8 weight classes around, and was winning the fight for 13 rounds.

Can you imagine for example Floyd Mayweather, who started at around 130 lbs (as Robinson did), going up to LHW to challenge the champion and being ahead on the scorecards until about the 10th or 11th round until collapsing from heat exhaustion?

You should put it in proper perspective, instead of just trying to degrade a great fighter in every way you can to anger a couple of people you don't know on a boxing forum.

The Liston fight? You do realise Ali could not see anything? Being blind against a dangerous fighter like Liston is like jumping off a cliff. Zero chance. I'm surprised Ali survived untill his eyes cleared up, or that he actually came out in that round. Oh and guess what? Ali didn't QUIT, like Salty Gay and Louis, did he? One epic fail after another hahahaha, oh mate you're pathetic.

And nice how you don't have much to say after I broke down your ******ed comparison between Ali and Holmes. You ignored every fact I posted so I consider that another retreat on your part.

What do you think would have happened if Robinson found his nuts and came out in the next round? Maxim would have KO'd the cowardly lad. So what you just wrote here has nothing to do with what I said. He could have faced Chris fookin Byrd for all I care, the lad was going down. And he knew it, so he QUIT.

Unlike Tyson who faced his punishment like a MAN, when he had absolutely nothing left in the last few rounds just like Salty Gay Robinson. He still went out and got ko'd by Lewis like a man instead of quitting on his stool like Salty *** Robinson. Comprehend that mate.

And don't start making things up. You and maybe others gave Maxim credit AFTER I FORCED IT OUT OF YOU like I was raping a street hooker, mate. If I didn't exist on these boards the disgusting behavior of you lads discrediting Maxim and rubbing that cowardly quitter's balls would continue. Thank God i'm here lads.

By the way, you retreated yet again about the thunderdome didn't ya mate? You got owned in there, quit like your hero. De ja vu in this thread innit?

[TheGreatA]

The Liston fight? You do realise Ali could not see anything? Being blind against a dangerous fighter like Liston is like jumping off a cliff. Zero chance. I'm surprised Ali survived untill his eyes cleared up, or that he actually came out in that round. Oh and guess what? Ali didn't QUIT, like Salty Gay and Louis, did he? One epic fail after another hahahaha, oh mate you're pathetic.

Again you miss the point. You were arguing with ***** that Ali was not about to quit against Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila.

I can agree with that but he did in fact attempt to quit against Sonny Liston. I brought that to your attention in case you didn't know.

Dundee was able to convince Ali to continue since you could recover from such a thing as some substance going into your eye.

What if he had been completely dehydrated to the point where there were no bodily fluids to support his brain as Robinson was?

Calling Louis a quitter for absorbing right hand bombs from Schmeling for 12 rounds and actually attempting a late round rally with the last of his reserves, when he was obviously knocked out with no possibility to recover, shows the bias you have out for him that is there for all to see.

And nice how you don't have much to say after I broke down your ******ed comparison between Ali and Holmes. You ignored every fact I posted so I consider that another retreat on your part.

You ignore my actual point. Both fighters were endangering their health had they continued, thus it was acceptable for them to retire in their corner (or to be retired in their corner as was the case both times).

What do you think would have happened if Robinson found his nuts and came out in the next round? Maxim would have KO'd the cowardly lad. So what you just wrote here has nothing to do with what I said. He could have faced Chris fookin Byrd for all I care, the lad was going down. And he knew it, so he QUIT.

Robinson had to be carried out. He would have had to be dragged into the ring for the next round.

Unlike Tyson who faced his punishment like a MAN, when he had absolutely nothing left in the last few rounds just like Salty Gay Robinson. He still went out and got ko'd by Lewis like a man instead of quitting on his stool like Salty *** Robinson. Comprehend that mate.

And he then went onto sit out against Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Not to mention when he bit Holyfield's ear to get out of a fight he was losing.

What a warrior. Unlike that quitter Ray Robinson who was only stopped once in a 170+ fight career that spanned more than two decades.

And don't start making things up. You and maybe others gave Maxim credit AFTER I FORCED IT OUT OF YOU like I was raping a street hooker, mate. If I didn't exist on these boards the disgusting behavior of you lads discrediting Maxim and rubbing that cowardly quitter's balls would continue. Thank God i'm here lads.

I've given him credit long before you ever began polluting this forum with your nonsense.

Dempsey couldn't knock out worse light heavyweights than Maxim.

I guess Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott couldn't punch either since none of them were able to finish off Joey Maxim and each of them had several tries at that.

The man had a granite chin, no question about it.

By the way, you retreated yet again about the thunderdome didn't ya mate? You got owned in there, quit like your hero. De ja vu in this thread innit?

I think everyone can make up their own minds about whether I was "owned" or not.

The fact is that you didn't respond until two days later and I did not notice you had posted there until now.

[billionaire]

By all rights Clay may not have deserved to beat Cooper the first time. Angelo cheated for him. Can't even be sure Angelo did it without Ali asking him. Ali did after all ask for his gloves to be cut off in the 3rd Frazier fight. Yes I realize the forms of cutting are different, but maybe Ali wanted to quit in the Cooper fight too and Angelo compromised to make it look like a glove malfunction in order to buy the kid enough time to change his mind.

lmao, watch the fight im sure its on youtube....alis clearly not taking cooper seriously, fooling around and taunting until he got dropped at the end of the 4th.....all in all he gets an extra 6 seconds, which is no big deal.....especially since he gets serious and stops cooper the next round....

just because someone is being disrespectful of robinson is no reason to lie...

[billionaire]

Ali was overated. That's been my opinion for some time now. Especially in the 70's. He did beat Foreman in Zaire and Frazier in Manila, but that's it. He lost a lot of fights that he got by crooked decisions. The third Norton fight and the Jimmy Young fight in particular. And I think the decision in the Shavers fight also was kinda disputed.

3rd norton fight was a tie at worst.....norton catches alis jabs but lands only a handful of good punches...jimmy young makes cory spinks look like tyson....both of those fights were after 1975 so how can you claim someone is overrated by talking about fights no one brings up when talking about alis greatness?

[princemanspoper]

I scored the third fight 8-7 to norton.I had him up about 6-2 after 8 rounds but he lost a tremendous amount of steam after the 8th and allowed ali back into the fight,Ali was starting to set the pattern of the second fight of just jabbing and moving and even throwing out the right hand and norton was simply allowing this,He seemed so determined to want to take ali's shot in some sort of machismo like behaviour and all that's going to do is lose points

Don't bother trying to get real facts out of *****(Dunce)He tends to rely on half ass myths,half truths and bull**** lies as his source.He has no problem using them and later backing out of his original arguments

As for benncollinsaad,He doesn't really watch boxing and has no formal education so it's harsh to denounce him.I feel best to simply humor him like one would a ******

[GJC]

You didn't prove nothing mate. Robinson was still a live fighter, won some rounds too but when Maxim turned up the heat on him, Salty GAY Robinson saw that he was going to be KO'd for the first time. So like the coward he was, he quit and acted like he couldn't continue.

Some? Robinson only had to stand up for the last couple of rounds to win. Also Maxim wasn't known for having a knock out punch. Credit to Maxim he survived the heat and won, SRR and the referee didn't and that was the story of the fight.
To try and turn this into Maxim beating SRR into defeat is as ****** as your posts on Louis. Do yourself a favour don't post on Louis or SRR your bias just makes you look ridiculous.

[Obama]

lmao, watch the fight im sure its on youtube....alis clearly not taking cooper seriously, fooling around and taunting until he got dropped at the end of the 4th.....all in all he gets an extra 6 seconds, which is no big deal.....especially since he gets serious and stops cooper the next round....

just because someone is being disrespectful of robinson is no reason to lie...

Better yet I have it on my HD. 1 minute 8 seconds went by from the bell sounding the end of round 4 to Ali getting off his stool in round 5 (The bell rang when Ali was still on the canvas, which perhaps it shouldn't have, but since it did the next bell is to sound within 1 minute). Whether he needed that extra 8 seconds or not is another story, just pointing out he shouldn't have had them.

[princemanspoper]

Five seconds dunce.And you were hardly making note of the time earlier on in the thread until I called you out on it.In fact,You don't seem so persistent on your cries of cheating as you were earlier.

[Obama]

Five seconds dunce.And you were hardly making note of the time earlier on in the thread until I called you out on it.In fact,You don't seem so persistent on your cries of cheating as you were earlier.

It's not my fault you can't read and make baseless assumptions.