Joe Louis vs Ali, prime for prime

[mickey malone]

i decided it would be more interesting to make these threads and let the slimey one post in them so he can embarrass himself, rather than putting him on ignore

Agreed... He's pure entertainment!... I don't even bother trying to be constructive with him anymore.. There's no point.. He only has 3 functions.. Hating on Robbinson/Louis or nuthuggin Marciano.. The guy is 'special needs' & has probably never done a days work in his life.. I'd imagine he gets all the 'hand outs' & is a regular at the Shrinks.. I'm more than happy to assist in keeping him there...

[JAB5239]

my thoughts exactly

i want jab to come into this thread as he had a good analysis of why he thought joe takes this

This is no "gimme" for Louis, and I can envision plenty of scenerios with Ali winning too. But Ali wasn't invincible and had plenty of flaws himself. If a trainer as widely respected as Eddie Futch could see Louis winning, he's got to have a shot. Futch did after all train two men who beat Ali, and neither were as good as Louis. Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

[RightCross94]

This is no "gimme" for Louis, and I can envision plenty of scenerios with Ali winning too. But Ali wasn't invincible and had plenty of flaws himself. If a trainer as widely respected as Eddie Futch could see Louis winning, he's got to have a shot. Futch did after all train two men who beat Ali, and neither were as good as Louis. Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

the article is a very good one and actually highlights ali's flaws quite well. It is definitely the best argument i have seen about why joe wins

in fact if joe did stalk ali, use his jab effectively, and look to feint to create openings on ali, he may well win the fight

the feint particuarly would give ali trouble, i do lots of sparring with a guy who is similar to ali in that he leans back from shots in an unorthodox way, feinting on these guys can cause them to lean back and put themselves in vulnerable positions, then, if you are fast enough with your hands (as joe was) you can quickly move in and attack with great results

so yes, in my opinion this fight would be a whole lot closer now, if joe employed a patient strategy with a constant jab and plenty of feints he may well set ali up

[Slimey Limey]

This is jazz. Anyone who has actually seen Louis fight has to feel Ali would whoop him, and do it easly. Louis was a great fighter, beautiful technique and power, but how slow? How limited were his feet?

Ali would just dance and pop, dance and pop. And Ali is bigger then him I believe, he'd break him down behind a jab Louis couldnt see, couldnt stop. It'd be like the 1st Liston fight in that Ali would just hit and move, and the difference in hand speed is criminal, Ali could very resonably get off 4-5 shots in one burst.

Ali cruises to a win here. Joe Louis also had a questionable chin, something no one can level at Ali. A few HW would beat JL head to head, including Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Bowe.

Any SENSIBLE boxing fan with no Louis bias would see it this way, but they have an imaginary version of Louis in their mind who was invincible, flawless, and the greatest specimen ever lived. You could slap the truth in their face and they still wouldn't listen.

[Miburo]

Louis was too immobile, Ali would box circles around him to a points win.

[StarshipTrooper]

Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

I've had that article for a couple months now: I converted it to PDF form and have it in my text files.

Poet

[GJC]

This is no "gimme" for Louis, and I can envision plenty of scenerios with Ali winning too. But Ali wasn't invincible and had plenty of flaws himself. If a trainer as widely respected as Eddie Futch could see Louis winning, he's got to have a shot. Futch did after all train two men who beat Ali, and neither were as good as Louis. Now I don't take this as gospel, but the article below outlines and makes a very strong case why Joe would win. Check it out and let me know what you think.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/alilouis.html

Very interesting article and thankyou for posting it.
Couple of points I noted, the feint point is a very good one.
Ali was very unothodox I may have the advantage on some in that I was an adult when Ali started. Myself along with others used to say keeps his hands too low and leans away instead of blocking etc.
That said Liston had a great jab good a cutting off the ring in fact pretty much most of the attributes that Louis would bring to the fight and Ali/Clay handled him with ease.
It may be that Ali's unorthodox style would be what Louis finds difficult to handle. Louis was a classical boxer if I was to train a fighter Louis would be one of the few fighters I would show him, I certainly wouldn't show him Ali.
Ali post ban relying on rope a dope Louis got big chances, Ali pre ban I can't see it personally.
Prime against prime Ali 6 to 6.5 fights out of 10 IMO.

[fight_professor]

Ali post ban would beat an older Louis I feel. Still much quicker and would stay outside.

Primes, its a murder. Ali handed jabs and power with ease. He himself is the greatest jabber in HW history, add to that his speed and tenacity, heart and (underrated) power which was good-he doesnt lose this.

He'd win 8-9/10 times.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali post ban would beat an older Louis I feel. Still much quicker and would stay outside.

Primes, its a murder. Ali handed jabs and power with ease. He himself is the greatest jabber in HW history, add to that his speed and tenacity, heart and (underrated) power which was good-he doesnt lose this.

He'd win 8-9/10 times.

While Ali did indeed have a great jab, boxing experts generally consider the jabs of Holmes, Liston, and Louis to be superior.

That being said, I happen to favor Ali in a head to head matchup although I think it's close. Ali's edge in foot speed being the difference in my mind. I tend to think GJC's assesment of 6 out of 10 in Ali's favor as being dead on.

Poet

[TredKiller]

billy conn out boxed louis, ali could, but ali would be bigger and have a better chin then conn

ali wins