Joe Louis vs Ali, prime for prime

[mickey malone]

yea but look at the competition difference..Abe Simon? that guy was a comedic giant that you might see in Robin Hood. Walcott beat him, anyone with an ounce of knowledge knows this.

I'm not saying Louis is bad, check out my ATG list, but in this matchup he's not going to win.

1 Louis
2 Ali
3 Holmes
4 Lewis
5 Tyson
6 Holyfield
7 Foreman
8 Frazier
9 Marciano
10 Tunney

As you can see, we're not a million miles away in our train of thought..
There really isn't a lot in it.. We could go on all night about Louis's left hook, Ali's speed of foot, Louis's suspect chin, Ali's lack of power... But I'm not gonna go there.. These 2 were the best of the lot, but Louis was like creeping death in the way that he cut off a ring.. He probably patented the saying, ' You can run, but you can't hide'
With regard to level of opposition... Cooper, Bugner & Spinks were hardly world beaters.. I'd say Walcott was a tadge better than all of them in fact.. Couldn't see Norton giving Louis the problems he gave Ali either..
Frazier, on the other hand would give anyone problems.. It would'a been real close between him and Louis to..
Don't think I can be swayed on this.. MM

[Slimey Limey]

This is the most talked about non entity in sporting history..
I really hate answering this question cos it's only a hairs breath that seperates them..

I think it's Ali Frazier in reverse..

If they had 3 fights, this is how I'd see it..

1. Ali UD
2. Louis TKO 14
3. Louis SD

REASONS: No doubt if in the same era, they'd have fought more than once..
I'm a great admirer of both (1&2 ATG) so I've evaluated my conclusions mostly on who they both fought TWICE, and who had the better resume in the return.. Louis wins this hands down..

Ali (2 defeats)

Norton (never really improved against him)
Bugner (same)
Cooper (still no improvement)
Spinks (slight improvement)
Frazier (so close the rubber decided it)

Louis (all wins)

Abe Simon (fight 1 = KO 13 fight 2 = KO 6)
Buddy Baer (fight 1 = KO 7 fight 2 = KO 1
Walcott (fight 1 = DC 15 fight 2 = KO 11)

I know that this doesn't settle the argument, & I don't think anything ever will.. But this is my yard stick for this particular thread.. See you shortly, Slime..

THAT is your argument?? I knew it'd be pathetic but this is borderline ******ed. What happened to actually describing their advantages in the fight itself instead of doing a little a game that any 10 year old can come up with. I haven't seen a worse argument for a mythical matchup, so atleast you win that. Congratulations mate

[mickey malone]

THAT is your argument?? I knew it'd be pathetic but this is borderline ******ed. What happened to actually describing their advantages in the fight itself instead of doing a little a game that any 10 year old can come up with. I haven't seen a worse argument for a mythical matchup, so atleast you win that. Congratulations mate

And your very quick to start crying when you get stalked..
If you had the ability to retain the slightest amount of information you would see the bottom paragraph directly above your recent intrusion, where I candidly explain, that it doesn't settle the argument.. However, like the gullible bottom feeder that you are, have fallen for the bait, hook, line & sinker.. In doing this, you have once again, exemplified your worth as a pathetic piece of pond life..

[Slimey Limey]

And your very quick to start crying when you get stalked..
If you had the ability to retain the slightest amount of information you would see the bottom paragraph directly above your recent intrusion, where I candidly explain, that it doesn't settle the argument.. However, like the gullible bottom feeder that you are, have fallen for the bait, hook, line & sinker.. In doing this, you have once again, exemplified your worth as a pathetic piece of pond life..

Don't get mad sweetheart.
If you are completely incapable of writing a sane knowledgeable argument in a classic Boxing matchup then why even bother? You're just making yourself look like an idiot in the process. Comparing their losses and rematches is the most laughable and irrelevant thing you could possibly do in deciding who would win. That right there just proves you're not worth anybody's time. Atleast some of these Louis fanboys know some stuff.
Stick to mma lad.

[mickey malone]

Don't get mad sweetheart.
If you are completely incapable of writing a sane knowledgeable argument in a classic Boxing matchup then why even bother? You're just making yourself look like an idiot in the process. Comparing their losses and rematches is the most laughable and irrelevant thing you could possibly do in deciding who would win. That right there just proves you're not worth anybody's time. Atleast some of these Louis fanboys know some stuff.
Stick to mma lad.

As in mugging mindless arseholes? No problem..

[StarshipTrooper]

Remember this?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=195982

It's the same guy. A certified troll.

Ah yes! Good old Rafael Benitez who claimed he was a boxing trainer and then later JulioCesa(r)Chavez. What a hypocrite seein as how under Rafael Benitez he was squawking about what a worthles bum-beater Marciano was:

Marciano was overrated. If he fought Liston isntead of being a chicken he would have bean beaten to a pulp. He struggled against slow old men like Walcott and a washed up Charles. I reckon most top heavies from each era would have wiped the floor with him. Do u really think he could stand in there with Big Klitchko, Lewis, Holyfied or even Samuel Peter?LOL. Way too easy to hit. He was lucky that Italians loved boxing at the time, it was number one in sports and he had no competition.

Only idiots who have no fight dvd's (i have 1000+ 500vhs) and haven't seen much would rate 'the rock'. The best of his era were old men, and even then he was getting outboxed by the painfully slow Jersey Joe Walcott (equivalent to a journeyman like glen johnson)just by looking at footage one can see he wouldn't stand a chance aginst a Prime Roy Jones, the old Hopkins or even our Clinton Woods! Never mind any genuine heavyweight. He didn't lose coz he didn't fight anybody. Look at all the best, they lost coz they fought the best. He knew he had to retire early or get ko'd by the up and coming fighters! Smart guy but still rubbish.

I've seen every major boxing match that took place in the past 100 years and every Marciano title fight. Walcott was an old slow man and even then he had to hit the man when he was down because he was being outboxed. Marciano is overrated because he was the white hope in a segragated America where they believed they were evolutionarily superior. Marciano never beat anybody decent in their prime and was lucky he was in a dead era. The truth is he was overrated and would lose to many of todays light heavyweights including Calzaghe Hopkins and maybe even Tarver. People who know boxing know he is not a top ten heavyweight. Don't get upset, it is the truth.

LOL some Marciano advocates believe Joe Louis was not totally over the hill when Marciano fought him!!! He was pulled out of retirment and looked more washed up than the shores of Blackpool. Just because Rocky was crap and made a meal out of him and the other old men he fought doesn't mean they were not washed up. Also he did not fight everyone around at his time and retired early to avoid the likes of Sonny liston, Cleveland Williams etc. Even so, it may not be his fault but still exposed his weaknesses. He struggled with Walcott who was average, slow and ever so OLD. It took a dirty shot and there was never to be a rematch in segregated america that needed their hero so bad. He was so easy to hit it was a joke. Completely outboxed for many rouns. Marciano would lose to David Haye in about 2 rounds.

I think he is not even in the top 20 in the heavyweight division of all time. It pisses me off when people think he was in the top 5 or even the best! ROFL. Why does he always pop up on p4p lists? He was absolutely ****!

I see you did your hours long homework on me. That's sweet.

THIS is coming from the guy who has several TheGreatA accounts, several Manmachine accounts as well as other alts such as Southpaw16. And if you want to deny this, then how are they so similar like you? After all mate, you're just mad that there are more people that agree with me such as the lad you posted here behind his back.

Stick to the thunderdome with that crap.

This thread is to expose Louis' perversities.

If by that you mean you have around 5 alts, then yes you are right mate.

Maybe you should step up your stalking game, so that I won't notice it's your alt that's following me around every time. For Gods sake is it that hard not to talk like a robot?

Well well, doesn't that make him just look "special"? Can we say "busted"? Nice job GreatA!

Poet

[RightCross94]

i decided it would be more interesting to make these threads and let the slimey one post in them so he can embarrass himself, rather than putting him on ignore

[fight_professor]

This is jazz. Anyone who has actually seen Louis fight has to feel Ali would whoop him, and do it easly. Louis was a great fighter, beautiful technique and power, but how slow? How limited were his feet?

Ali would just dance and pop, dance and pop. And Ali is bigger then him I believe, he'd break him down behind a jab Louis couldnt see, couldnt stop. It'd be like the 1st Liston fight in that Ali would just hit and move, and the difference in hand speed is criminal, Ali could very resonably get off 4-5 shots in one burst.

Ali cruises to a win here. Joe Louis also had a questionable chin, something no one can level at Ali. A few HW would beat JL head to head, including Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Bowe.

[StarshipTrooper]

This is jazz. Anyone who has actually seen Louis fight has to feel Ali would whoop him, and do it easly. Louis was a great fighter, beautiful technique and power, but how slow? How limited were his feet?

Ali would just dance and pop, dance and pop. And Ali is bigger then him I believe, he'd break him down behind a jab Louis couldnt see, couldnt stop. It'd be like the 1st Liston fight in that Ali would just hit and move, and the difference in hand speed is criminal, Ali could very resonably get off 4-5 shots in one burst.

Ali cruises to a win here. Joe Louis also had a questionable chin, something no one can level at Ali. A few HW would beat JL head to head, including Ali, Holmes, Foreman and Bowe.

While there is a clear difference in foot speed, few Heavyweights had faster hands than Louis so Ali doesn't really have as much advantage there as he did over most of his opponents.

Poet

[fight_professor]

I accept JL had decent hands, but (1) Ali's hands were faster (so were Tysons), and (B) hand speed only matters if you can hit something, with JL's concrete feet plodding around, he'd never be in a position to land. Ali wins this easily.

I love JL, but h-2-h, he has nothing on Ali which is not easily negated.


He'd have more power, but his chin is worse, his speed is worse, his style lends itself to Ali's fluid approach, and he's smaller-so cant stay on the outside as it were.

P4P atg list debate is legitimate, direct fight is a lock for Ali.