How would Frazier fare in today's climate?

[wmute]

wmute,

I agree with everything you said about Frazier except the part about only Foreman rocking him. Several guys rocked Frazier. Bonavena had him down several times. Ali had him hurt. Even journeyman Ron Stander buckled his knees in their fight. Frazier had a solid chin but it was not as good as Ali, Holmes, Marciano, etc's.

yes his chin is not marciano, holmes or ali, I agree

but

didn't Ali hurt him only late in the 3rd fight if I am right?
if I remember correctly, that would have nothing to do with today's division, where no one would keep such a high connect-ratio for so many rounds and close his eyes

bonavena had him down twice in one round when joe had only a dozen fight, the point with pasttime fighters is that some even lost some fights they definitely should not here and there, still when it was time to deliver the goods the champions showed to be champions in an even more impressive way than today's fighters with no losses on the record

a problem might be that he was a slow starter, but since prime tyson is not around in this division, this would not make it a problem

and I have to admit I never saw the stander fight,
people say frazier was not training very hard after the ali fight
(in fact he never fought at 205 again) and that also affected his performance with foreman (I don't believe this would have been different, though)

[Kid Achilles]

I think the thing about Joe was that he wasn't too difficult to hurt but nearly impossible to stop. You would really have to shoot him to keep him down and I suspect if the ref didn't stop it, and he was allowed to keep getting up, the Foreman fights would have been several rounds longer than they were. They would have ended with Joe in a coma. That's the only way I see him not getting up from a knockdown; he didn't know how to quit.

You can say that Tyson (I use this example as a a contemporary fight known for having a good chin and power) had a better chin in that it was harder to phase Tyson with punches but look at how Tyson reacts to hard shots. He goes into a shell. Notice in Tyson-Lewis where Tyson comes out like a lion in the begining of each round and goes out like a lamb. The guy hated to get hit. He had no confidence in himself. Whenever he got tagged it seemed like he'd say to himself "****, I am ****ing up, I need to stop making mistakes" and he'd stop taking chances. His punch outpout would decrease significantly, and he also seemed to get hit more often. Frazier on the other hand always fought the same regardless of what the other guy was doing. In fact, it's almost like receiving punches motivated him and made him fight with more ferocity.

That's the difference in their reaction to getting hit. Tyson would get hit by shots that didn't seem to hurt him that badly and yet they still had a detrimental effect on his workrate while when Joe got hurt he would just get pissed off and turn up the heat.

So even though I don't think that Frazier had a great chin, certainly not as solid as a guy like Tyson, he was so fierce and always in such good shape that it didn't matter. In the end, it all boils down to the fact that he was more comfortable getting hit than most fighters.

[chase]

frazier would not live with any good heavy wieght of today way 2 small, his son was his size moved liked him, was him in many ways, just was to little for the big boys of today mike tyson nearly killed him.14 stone fighter are to light

[buff_mike10]

frazier would not live with any good heavy wieght of today way 2 small, his son was his size moved liked him, was him in many ways, just was to little for the big boys of today mike tyson nearly killed him.14 stone fighter are to light

Thats funny. Comparing Joe to Marvis, thats just uncalled for. Joe was five times the brawler that his son was, his son was a boxer forced to brawl. If a prime Joe fought Tyson there would have been a totally different outcome. That fight would have went the full distance, and probably been a split decision. Don't compare the two though, thats insane

[franker01]

Agree with the last post. Mike Munoz just got passed over in the NFL Draft even though he's bigger than his dad. His dad Anthony is an NFL HOF member and one of the best ever at his position. Don't confuse Mike with Anthony or Marvis with Joe!

[dangerousity]

sorry to disagree with everyone but i don't think joe would beaten lennox lewis.
Lewis in my opinion was too big and to strong for joe, he used his height to perfection and would outbox joe with his jab for all for 12 rounds.
Lewis was a very strong puncher especially with that right hand and would of certainly hit joe throughtout the whole fight. Frazier didn't have the best chin in the world (better than lewis, i know!) but he was destroyed twice by george foreman and although lewis probably wouldn't of overwhelmed him like george he would of won by a unanimous decision.
Lewis in this fight has all the advantages, he's taller than joe by about 6 inches and outweighs him by 40-50 pounds.
If Joe and Tyson had a boxing match i'd still think tyson would win.

[cms]

frazier wouldnt do good with the bigger taller fighters today because of his style: take shots to give shots. Someone like vitali k. would k-o joe frazier very easily just because of his style, someone like danny williams could probably easily beat frazier also because of his style of fighting

[Imira]

Ok. If you believe that VK and Lennox could keep Joe out with their jabs and slow hands then you obviously haven't seen Joe in action or you saw him but didn't pay close enough attention to how he fights.

[kapersky]

holyfield,tyson,lewis and vitali would gave him trouble. but he still would do very well.

[GROCERYGETTERS]

Frazier would beat everyone and unify the title if he fought in his prime today.