What fighter do you think gets to much credit and gets overrated in legacy terms?

[Benny Leonard]

Tyson is overrated by many but underrated by just as many. It's almost sickening to see boxing historians leave Mike out and put Jack Johnson or even Dempsey on their lists (sry Benny Leonard). It's even more sickening to think they do this because of the way he conducted his life outside of boxing, yet fighters like Monzon get no heat what so-ever for beating up their wives.

Then of course you do have the rampant Tyson nuthugger that would pick him over any HW in history, but with every boxer you have these. Currently it's Rocky and Vitali.

It's cool. I'm not sure where I would rank Dempsey as far as "ATG" status anyway since I've never made a list like that, but he is one of my favorite fighters to watch. His competition is very debatable so I understand where you are coming from.

Gatti is another fighter I like very much and liked watching him, but I'm not going to rate him amongst the ATG fighters as far a legacy of who they beat. Top guy for excitement though.
Dempsey is a better fighter for me than Gatti so I'm not comparing them like that.

Personal feelings have to be put aside as best you can.

It's the same with my favorite fighter, Joe Louis. If I did make a list, I do think he would be in my top 10 without question. But if we start to debate who he beats throughout history, I think some fighters may beat him, like a prime Ali...at least in the first match.

[warp1432]

Jack Johnson and Bob Fitzsimmons.

I agree with this. His resume at Middleweight for being so highly regarded there is....not that much.

[KostyaTszyu44]

all the old slow white guys like jim jeffries john l sullivan etc....
modern day mike tyson....people always say in his prime he would beat lennox and evander which is just absurd since he got his ass kicked......plus his bob n weave style isnt built for longetivity....

and prince naseem entertaining but his style would not last against top competition....

i agree, although i dunno what being white has to do with it

pre 20/30s guys are extremely overrated, before guys like tunney, louis, robinson, walcott etc came along we pretty much had a gaggle of swinging brawlers we called boxers (bar the odd fighter such as benny leonard)

[yeykax]

Bernard Hopkins is probably the greatest in this past decade. He was the first to knock out DLH, and Tito. He was the first to beat Winky in like a decade, and the first to beat Pavlik at 43 years old. 20 TITLE defenses. Only two of those 20 were the WW that you speak of. What about the other 18 MW defenses? does he get credit for beating all top contender?

What top contenters you refering too??? all those bums!!!Name some one legitimate besides Roy jones,Keith Holmes,(Tito,Dhl these two blown up W.W),( blown up Jr. MW Winky),Bum ass Joppy, who?? you tell me!! he fought a whole bumch of no ones!!!!

[TheGreatA]

I agree with this. His resume at Middleweight for being so highly regarded there is....not that much.

To be fair I rarely see him ranked highly as a middleweight. He has a very good resume but most of his fights were above 160 pounds which is why it's hard to rate him as a middleweight.

Wins over

Jim Corbett
'Nonpareil' Dempsey
George Gardner
Joe Choynski
Tom Sharkey
Peter Maher
Gus Ruhlin
Jim Hall
Dan Creedon


as well as respectable showings against the much bigger Jim Jeffries and the much younger O'Brien.

[StarshipTrooper]

To be fair I rarely see him ranked highly as a middleweight. He has a very good resume but most of his fights were above 160 pounds which is why it's hard to rate him as a middleweight.

I rank Fitzsimmons as a top Middleweight. The problem is all his fights at Middleweight were in the 1800s and records are scanty. He was said to have been devastating in that division.

Poet

[yeykax]

Trinidad was a middleweight. KOing Joppy in 5 rounds, when no one else to date has done that even to a shot joppy, makes him a top middleweight. Joppy was a good fighter and top middleweight in the 90s.

Also some of the 18 defenses were weaker like Morrade Hakkar, but they were mandatories. Hopkins overall has a great resume and pretty amazing reign.

The "blown up" stuff is overrated to the max, minus DLH because I agree he didn't fit into the Middleweight frame. Trinidad absolutely did htough.

Listen my man Tito was a blown up W.W and the fact that he ko Joppy dnt mean he was a legitimate M.W, did you see the fight???He practically stood there like a statue and do nothing but take flush shots. And not only did he pick on weak oposition he cherry picked most of the guys against those 18 defenses of that weak ass I.B.F belt!!!

[TheGreatA]

To be fair I rarely see him ranked highly as a middleweight. He has a very good resume but most of his fights were above 160 pounds which is why it's hard to rate him as a middleweight.

Wins over

Jim Corbett
'Nonpareil' Dempsey
George Gardner
Joe Choynski
Tom Sharkey
Peter Maher
Gus Ruhlin
Jim Hall
Dan Creedon


as well as respectable showings against the much bigger Jim Jeffries and the much younger O'Brien.

I rank Fitzsimmons as a top Middleweight. The problem is all his fights at Middleweight were in the 1800s and records are scanty. He was said to have been devastating in that division.

Poet

I think he was a great middleweight. He barely weighed more than 160 lbs for many of his heavyweight fights in which he devastated good opposition.

It's tough to rate him because the records weren't kept back then. We do know that some of his opposition were good/great fighters however, no one can dispute that Corbett, Dempsey, Gardner, Choynski and Sharkey were great wins for Fitzsimmons.

The same can't be said about Peter Jackson for example although the people at the time thought of him as one of the best fighters in the world. Looking at his record you won't find too many recognizable names aside from Corbett and Jeffries whom he did not beat.

[Kid McCoy]

I think he was a great middleweight. He barely weighed more than 160 lbs for many of his heavyweight fights in which he devastated good opposition.

It's tough to rate him because the records weren't kept back then. We do know that some of his opposition were good/great fighters however, no one can dispute that Corbett, Dempsey, Gardner, Choynski and Sharkey were great wins for Fitzsimmons.

The same can't be said about Peter Jackson for example although the people at the time thought of him as one of the best fighters in the world. Looking at his record you won't find too many recognizable names aside from Corbett and Jeffries whom he did not beat.

Joe Gans, among others, cited Fitz as one his favourite fighters, even taking a menial job at his training camp just to learn from him. What better compliment for him than that?

[Greatwhitehope]

Listen my man Tito was a blown up W.W and the fact that he ko Joppy dnt mean he was a legitimate M.W, did you see the fight???He practically stood there like a statue and do nothing but take flush shots. And not only did he pick on weak oposition he cherry picked most of the guys against those 18 defenses of that weak ass I.B.F belt!!!

Trinidad was favoured to beat Hopkins, at the time of the fight I don't think anyone would've disputed that Trinidad was a genuine middleweight contender who looked real dangerous.

Also him beating Pavlik is another great win for him, not many gave B Hop a chance but now that he destroyed him everyone just thinks Pavliks rubbish, despite the fact that he schooled Taylor twice, the man who 'beat' Hopkins twice.