Ali's close/controverisal decisions thread

[warp1432]

Pretty basic really. What fights do you feel he lost or deserved to win?

I'll just give my comments about some of them for now:

Doug Jones: I thought Ali won this pretty comfortably. I don't really get why people thought Doug Jones won it except for what TheMachine told me earlier today, but even then Doug Jones didn't win it.

Sonny Liston 1: Well the scorecards didn't matter, but I thought this was a pretty close fight going into the 7th round. General Myth is Ali was killing him, but that wasn't the case at all imo.

George Foreman: I'm bringing this up because what were your scorecards for this fight? The official judges had it very very weird, with a lot of even rounds. I never actually really took the time to score it, but I thought Foreman was winning until he got knocked out, but the judges all had it for Ali. I'm going to rewatch this fight because of it.

[TheGreatA]

I thought Ali won the Doug Jones fight, was even with Liston or leading by one round and was winning the Foreman fight at the time of the KO.

The Ken Norton fights (especially the third) and the Jimmy Young fight are his most controversial decision wins. The Shavers fight was also close, as was the second Frazier fight (but not by as much).

Some had Frazier ahead or near even in the Thrilla in Manila.

Ron Lyle was outpointing Ali until the 11th round TKO.

[warp1432]

For the thrilla in manilla fight I had it 1-3 Ali, 4-9 Frazier, 10-14 Ali.

It was a very see saw battle in which Ali gave up most of the middle rounds. Best Heavyweight fight ever though.

[them_apples]

I thought Ali won the Doug Jones fight, was even with Liston or leading by one round and was winning the Foreman fight at the time of the KO.

The Ken Norton fights (especially the third) and the Jimmy Young fight are his most controversial decision wins. The Shavers fight was also close, as was the second Frazier fight (but not by as much).

Some had Frazier ahead or near even in the Thrilla in Manila.

Ron Lyle was outpointing Ali until the 11th round TKO.

I sort of think of the Lyle fight as a premature stoppage, especially when you see what went on in the Foreman/Lyle fight.

[TheGreatA]

I sort of think of the Lyle fight as a premature stoppage, especially when you see what went on in the Foreman/Lyle fight.

Lyle could take a beating as seen in his fights against Foreman and Shavers. He was not punching back though so the stoppage was somewhat justified.

Ali must have better punching power than given credit for since he came back and hurt Lyle with one good punch.

[them_apples]

Lyle could take a beating as seen in his fights against Foreman and Shavers. He was not punching back though so the stoppage was somewhat justified.

Ali must have better punching power than given credit for since he came back and hurt Lyle with one good punch.

Ali is clearly a better puncher than given credit for, when he sat down on his punches he could definentely cause some hurt.

I would have given Lyle a bit more time than they did though, especially since he was winning.

[Greatwhitehope]

The third Ken Norton fight, loved watching those two go at it, I thought Norton won on the night

Anyone seen the Norton Foreman fight? I thought Norton seemed like he had a good style to beat foreman, how wrong I was.

[StarshipTrooper]

The third Ken Norton fight, loved watching those two go at it, I thought Norton won on the night

Anyone seen the Norton Foreman fight? I thought Norton seemed like he had a good style to beat foreman, how wrong I was.

Norton's crab-like style was calculated to be poison to slick boxers which is why he gave fighters like Ali and Holmes fits. It came with a very heavy price though: It left him completely open to straight ahead sluggers as brutal losses to Foreman, Shavers, and Quarry attest.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Sonny Liston 1: Well the scorecards didn't matter, but I thought this was a pretty close fight going into the 7th round. General Myth is Ali was killing him, but that wasn't the case at all imo.

Liston's problem was that up until the 5th. round (when Ali's eyes went) he couldn't land anything. He would take a flurries of punches from Ali and simply couldn't respond with anything.

George Foreman: I'm bringing this up because what were your scorecards for this fight? The official judges had it very very weird, with a lot of even rounds. I never actually really took the time to score it, but I thought Foreman was winning until he got knocked out, but the judges all had it for Ali. I'm going to rewatch this fight because of it.

I had Ali ahead at the time of the stoppage. Most of Foreman's punches were missing the target. I suppose if one watches superficially it may seem like Foreman was in control but when one watches closely you see that Ali is taking very little real punishment then landing series of head shots in the last 30 seconds of each round. Plus, Ali was scoring regularly with the jab.

Poet

[Boogie Nights]

Norton's crab-like style was calculated to be poison to slick boxers which is why he gave fighters like Ali and Holmes fits. It came with a very heavy price though: It left him completely open to straight ahead sluggers as brutal losses to Foreman, Shavers, and Quarry attest.

Poet

Cooney, not Quarry