Who Can Handle Vitali in the Historical Pantheon?

[BattlingNelson]

I agree it hurts his legacy and I would have liked Lennox to have had more of Joe Louis' pride in his legacy. Unanswered questions never seemed to have unduly troubled Lennox though.

In his fight against Vitali Lennox essentially gave away the first four rounds. He won the last two, however, and it certainly seemed to me he had turned the fight at that point so I don't think it follows that he had to have the cut to win. There were six more rounds to go so Vitali didn't have an insurmountable lead and Lennox was inflicting enough damage that a late stoppage in Lewis' favor was a very real possibility.

Poet

I guess we'll have to disagree on the projected outcome without the cuts. The Lewis that returned to his corner after the last round was completely spent. He might have landed some big shots on Vitali in the round but he looked absolutely wasted whereas Vitali looked comparatively fresh. I'm convinced that Lewis would have gassed like the Hindenburg for an inside the distance loss.

[Esquire Dale]

Vitali will always be known as a good heavyweight.

In league with greats like Lennox Lewis, Ali, Tyson, Foreman? I don't think so. Vitali is a boring fighter and a boring guy.

He has a decent record don't get me wrong. But he's not made of the right stuff to be a legend. Same with his brother, but his brother sucks anyway compared to Vitali.

[paul750]

Getting your face cut to shreds and being stopped because of it is just as legitimate as being knocked out. I can't understand why some people don't seem to want to try and understand that. How many times have we watched a boxer winning on the cards and then being knocked out? What is the difference between that and being cut? Lewis was actually starting to do better anyway, and it was only 4-2 in rounds.

[Esquire Dale]

^ Absolutley. I think everyone realises a non-headbutt cut stoppage is classed as undisputed win. It's only the people who refuse to accept the truth.

Would people have liked Vitali to continue the fight and have his face ripped to pieces prior to getting knocked out?

[BattlingNelson]

Getting your face cut to shreds and being stopped because of it is just as legitimate as being knocked out. I can't understand why some people don't seem to want to try and understand that. How many times have we watched a boxer winning on the cards and then being knocked out? What is the difference between that and being cut? Lewis was actually starting to do better anyway, and it was only 4-2 in rounds.

I don't question Lewis win. Rules are rules and Lewis won. But cuts are always unfortunate and often gives room for what-if speculations. My thoughts are only such.

[zelenoff_chimp]

..... the smallish guys such as Dempsey..... just don't stand a chance. Vitali has the size advantage of Lennox Lewis, the chin of Marciano.....

The chin of Marciano? No. He dosn't have the Rocks' Balls either.

and the punch placement/accuracy of Joe Lewis.

No, he dosn't. Louis threw 4 and 5 punch combinations with pin point accuracy.

His physical advantages cannot be ignored when placing him against the ATG's.

OK. But neither can his basic boxing skills, his lack of an inside game, lack of defensive skills, no left hook to speak of, his relatively slow hands, and yes, quitting aganst Chris Byrd.

[1SILVA]

What's your take on Vitali's preperations then? He was a late replacement and wasn't in training for a worldchampionship fight as Lewis was. Do you think he was prepared?

I don't think he was as prepared as he would have liked to have been, but he seemed much more prepared than Lewis did. Lewis did not take Johnson seriously and because of his lack of training almost got ko'd by Vitali. He pulled out the win, and in my opinion, saw that he no longer was a world clas fighter and decided to retire. No amount of money was going to get him to come back, and for that Lennox should be applauded

[mickyward5656]

liston and foreman imo would KO klitschko early in the fight easy....

[Marlin26]

the ones in bold would all beat Vitali in my view

size isnt everything, vitali is very slow like all men that size and its not like he automatically storms over opponents, chris byrd beat him as did an old lewis, he isnt a superhuman monster, hes just big and tough with a solid chin/punch and ok skills

i would add dempsey to that list of bold.

If a prime dempsey were to get onto vitali, im sure he would cuase enough damage to make the man retire

[JAB5239]

** Here's the flaw in that thinking: The last time Lewis fought in the 230s, 238 against McCall, he was KOed.

Are we to discount the dozen or so fights in the 230 and claim he was just lucky to win being so out of shape like is claimed against Vitali?

Against McCall Lewis was out boxing him easily till getting caught

Difference is, Lewis was almost 38 for this fight. If he took him lightly or didn't train properly thats on him. But this certainly wasn't the best Lewis we saw in the ring.

He was 250 for Botha, and 249 against Tua two fights before coming in at 254 against Rahman. Need I remind anyone that with a fighter this size, he could break wind and lose 4 lbs? Moreover, heavies often don't bother to weigh stripped down so weights are not always accurate.

He was seven pounds lighter for the Rahman rematch and the difference was obvious. Both Tua and Botha were at huge disadvantages in skill and size. Fighting someone of Vitali's dimensions and skill a fighter has to be at his best. How can anyone think Lennox was in top form when he was sucking wind so early and at his highest weight? Doesn't make sense to me.

Lewis incrementally increases his fight weight over time like just about every heavy who's ever lived, indeed, most fighters who've ever lived. Because of the Klitchko's accension along with Byrd and Ruiz, Lewis saw a series of very tough fights late in his career, so why bother? He was always a bit lazy in the ring, always seemingly doing just enough to confer points advantage unless someone pressed him and made him slug it out.

The question here is why did Lewis have these tough fights later in his career? Bacause like almost every fighter in history his skills were diminishing with age.

It's a fact he had a minimum 8 week training camp. Early against Vitali, Lewis is waving in the wind on weak legs. Stamina had very little to do with it. Lewis, and everyone who ever stepped in against Vitali as it turns out, struggles with his timing and his style. Should this be a surprise anymore?

Stamina certainly played a part in it my friend, as well as not being able to pull the trigger the same way he could a few years before.

Maybe it wasn't the best Lewis, but I don't see how it could be the worst Lewis when he showed enough guts and stamina to get back into the fight after being barely able to sit on his stool without falling over. Couldn't have done that without being in at least decent shape with a good camp.

It may not have been the worse Lewis, but it wasn't the best and thats the point I was making to the post I originaly answered to. As far as gutting it out.....thats what great fighters do.

Maybe Lewis did indeed approach "the wall" where a fighter doesn't have it any more like Popkins against SuperJoe, but look at Poppy's masterclass against Pavlik? Was everyone claiming Poppy was overweight from his prime and in poor shape against Joe?

No, of course not, he's American and walks on water according to supporters.

Ahh, but Hopkins never had any history of ever being out of shape. On top of that he was part of a very, very low percentage of fighters to excell at an advanced aged.