Who Can Handle Vitali in the Historical Pantheon?

[KostyaTszyu44]

I guess we'll have to disagree on the projected outcome without the cuts. The Lewis that returned to his corner after the last round was completely spent. He might have landed some big shots on Vitali in the round but he looked absolutely wasted whereas Vitali looked comparatively fresh. I'm convinced that Lewis would have gassed like the Hindenburg for an inside the distance loss.

of course you are you biased fuck

[LondonRingRules]

Against McCall Lewis was out boxing him easily till getting caught

Difference is, Lewis was almost 38 for this fight. If he took him lightly or didn't train properly thats on him. But this certainly wasn't the best Lewis we saw in the ring.

He was seven pounds lighter for the Rahman rematch and the difference was obvious. Both Tua and Botha were at huge disadvantages in skill and size. Fighting someone of Vitali's dimensions and skill a fighter has to be at his best. How can anyone think Lennox was in top form when he was sucking wind so early and at his highest weight? Doesn't make sense to me.

The question here is why did Lewis have these tough fights later in his career? Bacause like almost every fighter in history his skills were diminishing with age.
.

** First off, most good fighters easily outbox McCall, but this was a 2nd rd KO loss, so a single round of 10-9 twice and 10-10 ain't a legit claim of "outboxing" anyone.

You've taken a single factor, weight, and placed it out of context. The rematch did not happen at altitude, nor did Lennox cut his training short to star in a movie. Remember, he was criticized for not acclimating at altitude which would've involved an extra week of training camp minimum.

Lewis didn't have tough fights later in his career unless you want to include the first Rahman fight. The really last tough fight was against Mercer 5 yrs previous. Oh, Briggs gave him a scare and forced him into a slug out that sees him literally out puffing the asthmatic Briggs, last seen corkscrewing himself into the canvas after missing a hook.

Here is the last round of the first Rahman fight, the 5th rd. Note the low pace by Lewis, the ease with which he is walking down Rahman, the accuracy and sharpness, and how disdainfully Lewis walked into and through Rahman's first right hand. Fatigue was not a factor in this bout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFJyWSXlSbg

Now, you could argue as the announcers note that Lewis was fighting at a reduced pace which left Rahman in the fight, but again, at altitude a fighter will not keep the same pace as at sea level whether or not he's in shape. Rahman was barely threw anything in the 5th, so was he out of shape now?

No, this was a case of Lewis feeling extremely comfortable in a fight he looked sharp in and got caught by the perfect punch. Of course Lewis could have been in better shape, but it seems more like overconfidence and a lack of focus did him in here.

We know Lewis didn't cut his training camp short for the Vitali date, nor was it held at altitude, nor was he distracted by a movie. The fight started at a higher pace against a bigger, stronger, more accurate fighter with Lewis being shipped more damage early. Note how Vitali is so gassed by his efforts in the 4th round when he allows Lewis to recover.

Lewis literally wobbles in a gentle breeze half way across the ring and into the ropes and Vitali could've have blown him over he had hadn't been so oxygen deprived himself. Vitali was used to an easier pace and had never found himself in this position before, a big strong HOFer fighting back with every ounce of his being.

We know Vitali wasn't scheduled on this card until 3 weeks from the date unlike Lewis who already had 5 weeks of training under his belt, so if Lewis did hit the wall at age 38 as I acknowleged possible, surely we have to admit this is offset by short preparation time Vitali had. Lewis had no problems whatsoever with pace against Tyson and Tua at 250lbs, but, again, those fights against smaller, less accurate, less active fighters than Vitali.

I'm not a "big" man, yet in the course of a normal day my weight often fluctuated 5 lbs back when I had a scale in the bathroom, so is it that at one point of the day I was in shape, and another point I am not?

Remember, these are big, huge men who can eat whatever they wish and wear whatever they want when they step up for the official weigh in, not two lighter division fighters cutting to the bone and then drying out to barely eke out the limit naked as jaybirds behind towels as Chavez Jr and Cuello did for their 154lb WBC Continental belt last night.

Both **** on the 154 limit, but what if one had stopped off at the all you can eat breakfast buffet on the way in?

I prefer to think this fight will be an epic classic much more appreciated by future generations that features the strengths and weaknesses of two great heavies turning on a twisted choice of the Fates, the Mother of All Cuts.

[BattlingNelson]

of course you are you biased fuck

How is stating an opinion based on facts as I see them being biased?

You're

[StarshipTrooper]

of course you are you biased fuck

That's uncalled for. Nelson is a good poster who always brings thoughtful insight to his posts. He is NOT one of foolish fan-bois who make inane posts. He happens to disagree with me on Vitali - Lennox matchup; it's not the first time a good poster and myself disagreed on a subject without things becoming unpleasent. Save the vitriol for the fools, not quality posters like Nelson.

Poet

[Hawkins]

Mike Tyson, Jack Dempsey and Joe Frazier....

Stylistically, I think these guys would be best suited for someone of Vitali's size..especially Dempsey and Tyson. Their quickness and ability to get inside and go to war would have chopped him down. Frazier with his hard to hit style constantly working to get inside and hammer 'em the hook would also be able to do the job.

[LondonRingRules]

Mike Tyson, Jack Dempsey and Joe Frazier....

Stylistically, I think these guys would be best suited for someone of Vitali's size..especially Dempsey and Tyson. Their quickness and ability to get inside and go to war would have chopped him down. Frazier with his hard to hit style constantly working to get inside and hammer 'em the hook would also be able to do the job.

** Tyson in particular, the young professionally trained one, not the sick drugged up clown trained Tyson.

Frazier was easier to hit than Dempsey or Tyson, so he has the longest shot, but the thing is, those kinds of fighters are very rare as it takes a huge commitment to fitness and timing to make the style work, and then you have to have the natural attributes which few have.

Speaking of which, gonna have a little fun with the resident slappee whom I allow to post in my threads, but restricts me from slapping him in his own threads:

All Have rabid loons backing them that you'd just love to slap. Who has the worst?

Poet

** Thing is my little 8th grade friend, is you being the slappee, not the slapper.

Your little 8th grade desk keeps shrinking with you in it year after year. Is it the 9th grade girls that are scaring you? They keeping you talking like an immature 8th grader?

[NakiFan]

I think you would be surprised how Quickly Vitali crumbled, faced with A level prime opposition rather than the c- level fighters him and wlad have been fighting the last ten years.

[LondonRingRules]

I think you would be surprised how Quickly Vitali crumbled, faced with A level prime opposition rather than the c- level fighters him and wlad have been fighting the last ten years.

** They can only fight those who will fight them, and now with titles more are willing.

I'd match their title defenses against Big Pants Larry Holmes any day of the week, and Ali's first set of defenses. Doubt Brian London or Marvis Frazier give either brother much to worry about.

[-Swizzy-]

Ignoring that Wlad actually sports the better record, lets take a look at Vitali's impact on the heavy division.

Here's IBRO top 20. Who has a chance to beat Vitali in the bunch? Keep in mind that all but Rocky have significant losses on their records, so I don't want to here the usual bleating of doggerel 8th grade poets making their favorites gimmees over Vitali when we know that ain't the way it's ever gonna go down.

Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Larry Holmes
James J. Jeffries
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Joe Frazier
Gene Tunney
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Sam Langford
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Harry Wills
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons

The bolded are who I think would have beaten Vitali in their primes.

[-Swizzy-]

I guess we'll have to disagree on the projected outcome without the cuts. The Lewis that returned to his corner after the last round was completely spent. He might have landed some big shots on Vitali in the round but he looked absolutely wasted whereas Vitali looked comparatively fresh. I'm convinced that Lewis would have gassed like the Hindenburg for an inside the distance loss.

as much as lewis looked out of shape in that fight, in the last round, Vitali looked even more gassed and wasted than Lewis.

Who knows what would have happened had the fight not been stopped(IMO would have been one of the best hw fights of all-time) but it sure looked like Vitali was not too far off from being dropped by Lewis.