Jim Jeffries or Jack Johnson

[T.Horton]

Anyway, I will chalk this up to you being a lonely old guy with an axe to grind. The fact that I have asked you nicely to quit with the condescension and you can't even do that for the sake of simple debate/conversation tells me that you've probably got some anti-social behaviour that you need to work out as well.

Have a great rest of the week.

[LondonRingRules]

I guess everybody who disagrees with you is a nuthugger, huh?

I'm finished with you.

** Oh my stars, you've confused me with the long time 8th grade poet.

He'll be pleased, but alas, not myself as there goes my planned fish fry......

[butterfly1964]

Jeffries never fought the elite young black fighters at the time. Johnson beat Denver Ed Martin, Mcvey, Jeanette, Langford, etc. he also anihillated Fitsimmons in 2 rounds (probably could have done it in one). Plus Johnson in his prime was a different breed of athlete never seen before, while Jeffries was a prototype, grind it out tough man.

[StarshipTrooper]

Anyway, I will chalk this up to you being a lonely old guy with an axe to grind. The fact that I have asked you nicely to quit with the condescension and you can't even do that for the sake of simple debate/conversation tells me that you've probably got some anti-social behaviour that you need to work out as well.

Have a great rest of the week.

This is why I have him ignored lol!

Poet

[LondonRingRules]

Jeffries never fought the elite young black fighters at the time. Johnson beat Denver Ed Martin, Mcvey, Jeanette, Langford, etc. he also anihillated Fitsimmons in 2 rounds (probably could have done it in one). Plus Johnson in his prime was a different breed of athlete never seen before, while Jeffries was a prototype, grind it out tough man.

** Why, it's sweet young little Butterfly all grown up now and flexing his new muscles for show.

Like Vitali announced recently to Juan Carlos, "Butterfly, my little friend, so glad to see you. I am so sorry that I have to beat you up."

Johnson weren't the one acclaimed for his athleticism in his youth, Jeffries was and still is. Read all about it.

Fair play about Jeff's style, but as pointed out, the man won his title on his prodigious natural talents and prodigious physical attributes, not experience as he was only 9-0-2 going into the Fitz challenge. In his 5 rematches, he dramatically reduces the time needed to dispose of his more experienced contenders, Fitz, Corbett, Ruhlin, and Griffin. Only Sharkey extends him out. He was a much more refined fighter upon his retirement.

If Jeff is criticized as a grind it out man, Johnson was well booed in his day as a spoiling, non fighting, hug'em & hit'em when the ref ain't looking prototype that Ruiz and Poppy get booed for today. Jeff was at least one of the early acclaimed KO artists with a steller 75% KO ratio in the dreary ND era on his retirement. Even more outstanding when 40% of his career was against HOFers. Jeff was 7-0-1, 5 KO against those HOFers on his retirement to Johnson's 0-1-0, 1 KO loss.

Johnson never faced all the elite black heavies that Jeff did coming up, and the only one Johnson did face he got his big booty well whooped in, Griffin. Nor did Johnson face the elite white heavies of the day. Fitz a sick old man entering his retirement phase silly boy. 'Bout like Big Pants Lar whoopin' Ali, whooooop-whooooop, WOW!

At any rate, the first sick old white contender Johnson did face smacked him ice cold as easy as a skip through the park with his stroller.

At least when Jeff whooped his sick old champ Peter Jackson, Jeff has the excuse of Leon, only having 7 fights experience and not even Leon's amateur background, and disposes of the noble Peter Jackson in 3 rds.

McVea was barely 19 yrs old, 6-0 when Johnson first matches him. Jeannette only 0-3, Langford only 150lbs, who takes an ad out challenging every fighter in the world after his Johnson bout, EXCEPT Jeff.

Denver Ed WHO? Why should Jeff fight Denver Ed when he'd already handled Johnson's victors and champion of the world? Maybe had Denver Ed held it together better, he might have made enough headway to be a credible challenger to Fitz.

To wit: "" "Martin proved the cleverer and never gave his opponent (Bob Armstrong) a chance, being declared an easy winner on points at the close of the fifteenth round; Martin, it is announced, will challenge the winner of the Jeffries-Fitzsimmons fight in San Francsico." (Associated Press)""

This is in the middle of his English tour, but unfortunately, being exposed to England culture may have done wonders for his English and culture, but he fell apart, hanging on by a thread against Armstrong in a 6 rd Philadelphia rematch that sees Denver Ed hit the canvas 6x for a ND. We know by modern standards Armstrong wins that bout handily and Jeff had already handled Armstrong coming up. Point being that Denver Ed couldn't hold it together on the eve of his challenge to Jeff, something that Johnson replicates when he loses the unofficial elimination bout against Hart and then drops one to novice Jeannette.

In in Jeff's last fight, his storied ill begotten comeback he goes 15 tough rounds against the new champ and shows more class than Johnson who's knocked out by a featherweight, the mighty Walter Price who rightfully deserves to be ranked ahead of Johnson in the heavy pantheon if you fluff Johnson up with Fitz and Jeff!

A featherweight, or a mere feather to fluff your bed my dear Butterfly, oh my stars!!!!!!

[T.Horton]

Jeffries never fought the elite young black fighters at the time. Johnson beat Denver Ed Martin, Mcvey, Jeanette, Langford, etc. he also anihillated Fitsimmons in 2 rounds (probably could have done it in one). Plus Johnson in his prime was a different breed of athlete never seen before, while Jeffries was a prototype, grind it out tough man.

Agreed. I also like the 'Johnson was a different breed of athlete' I think you can probably sum it up more accurately by saying that he was a different breed of boxer. He and Corbett were two of a kind for that time...I would actually probably rate Corbett higher than Jeffries as well to be honest. All these fighters were grinding it out, week after week, month after month while Jeffries had what? 23 fights against 18 opponents?

Rate him higher than Johnson? I don't see how it can logically be done.

[T.Horton]

This is why I have him ignored lol!

Poet

It's bloody annoying isn't it? I won't put him on ignore but I will ignore him. Thing is, even though he has a convoluted way of twisting history to suit his ridiculous arguments, he is not a bad poster. If he could only communicate like a normal human being...

[StarshipTrooper]

It's bloody annoying isn't it? I won't put him on ignore but I will ignore him. Thing is, even though he has a convoluted way of twisting history to suit his ridiculous arguments, he is not a bad poster. If he could only communicate like a normal human being...

That's the thing though: Twisting history and make rediculous arguments are what I hate most in a poster lol!

Poet

[QueensburyRules]

** Why, it's sweet young little Butterfly all grown up now and flexing his new muscles for show.

Like Vitali announced recently to Juan Carlos, "Butterfly, my little friend, so glad to see you. I am so sorry that I have to beat you up."

Johnson weren't the one acclaimed for his athleticism in his youth, Jeffries was and still is. Read all about it.

Fair play about Jeff's style, but as pointed out, the man won his title on his prodigious natural talents and prodigious physical attributes, not experience as he was only 9-0-2 going into the Fitz challenge. In his 5 rematches, he dramatically reduces the time needed to dispose of his more experienced contenders, Fitz, Corbett, Ruhlin, and Griffin. Only Sharkey extends him out. He was a much more refined fighter upon his retirement.

If Jeff is criticized as a grind it out man, Johnson was well booed in his day as a spoiling, non fighting, hug'em & hit'em when the ref ain't looking prototype that Ruiz and Poppy get booed for today. Jeff was at least one of the early acclaimed KO artists with a steller 75% KO ratio in the dreary ND era on his retirement. Even more outstanding when 40% of his career was against HOFers. Jeff was 7-0-1, 5 KO against those HOFers on his retirement to Johnson's 0-1-0, 1 KO loss.

Johnson never faced all the elite black heavies that Jeff did coming up, and the only one Johnson did face he got his big booty well whooped in, Griffin. Nor did Johnson face the elite white heavies of the day. Fitz a sick old man entering his retirement phase silly boy. 'Bout like Big Pants Lar whoopin' Ali, whooooop-whooooop, WOW!

At any rate, the first sick old white contender Johnson did face smacked him ice cold as easy as a skip through the park with his stroller.

At least when Jeff whooped his sick old champ Peter Jackson, Jeff has the excuse of Leon, only having 7 fights experience and not even Leon's amateur background, and disposes of the noble Peter Jackson in 3 rds.

McVea was barely 19 yrs old, 6-0 when Johnson first matches him. Jeannette only 0-3, Langford only 150lbs, who takes an ad out challenging every fighter in the world after his Johnson bout, EXCEPT Jeff.

Denver Ed WHO? Why should Jeff fight Denver Ed when he'd already handled Johnson's victors and champion of the world? Maybe had Denver Ed held it together better, he might have made enough headway to be a credible challenger to Fitz.

To wit: "" "Martin proved the cleverer and never gave his opponent (Bob Armstrong) a chance, being declared an easy winner on points at the close of the fifteenth round; Martin, it is announced, will challenge the winner of the Jeffries-Fitzsimmons fight in San Francsico." (Associated Press)""

This is in the middle of his English tour, but unfortunately, being exposed to England culture may have done wonders for his English and culture, but he fell apart, hanging on by a thread against Armstrong in a 6 rd Philadelphia rematch that sees Denver Ed hit the canvas 6x for a ND. We know by modern standards Armstrong wins that bout handily and Jeff had already handled Armstrong coming up. Point being that Denver Ed couldn't hold it together on the eve of his challenge to Jeff, something that Johnson replicates when he loses the unofficial elimination bout against Hart and then drops one to novice Jeannette.

In in Jeff's last fight, his storied ill begotten comeback he goes 15 tough rounds against the new champ and shows more class than Johnson who's knocked out by a featherweight, the mighty Walter Price who rightfully deserves to be ranked ahead of Johnson in the heavy pantheon if you fluff Johnson up with Fitz and Jeff!

A featherweight, or a mere feather to fluff your bed my dear Butterfly, oh my stars!!!!!!

- - Alas, when Boxrec redid their records, the Price KO of Jeff disappeared, to where I know not?

[Marchegiano]

- - Alas, when Boxrec redid their records, the Price KO of Jeff disappeared, to where I know not?

Johnson? He meant Johnson. Jeff never lost to no Walter Prices.

Boxrec stops Johnon's record in 31. No Price.






CBZ, Jack's record:

1938
Sep 1 Walter Price Boston, Ma LT 7

This is 30 years after Johnson beat Burns. 30.






Boxrec also stops Price's record at 1927, no 38, no Johnson






Y'all want to know why?

Walter Price, the featherweight, never fought Jack Johnson, the heavyweight, and the post Bury is quoting is all kinds of ****ed.





You know who Boxrec does have as Walter Price in 1938?

The American Heavyweight Walter Price.

Interestingly the American Walter Price HW does not seem to have a record at all. Including the Johnson victory. I can not say why, but, having a guess I assume this is similar to the Fight Hype report about Dempsey and Johnson. Only exists in the 80s, the contemporary sources claimed by the 80s reveals the 80s source was just a lie.

This is Walter Price's full Boxrec record:

Boxing Illustrated May 1968 Issue (pp 31-33) entitled "Strickly Off The Record" by Walter M. Price. In the article Price claimed he KO'd Johnson. He quotes: "I was 45 and Johnson 56. I weighed 205 and Johnson 257 ...... The place was the basement of a club on Shamute (Shawmut) Avenue, big enough to hold a couple of hundred men ...... The fight was to be no count, to the finish, bare hands, no rounds, one bell to start the fight and one to declare a winner when one man could no longer continue ...... Tom Sprague was the referee ..... Weaving to my left, I stepped in with a fast left hook .... it landed flush on the jaw ... Johnson fell forward .... Rolling over he tried to get up, but fell to a sitting position. ... He rang the bell and shouted, Price in 19 minutes."


Tom Sprague? Anyone?

No rounds? Anyone?

A basement fight




Given it was Queenie herself who read my full report on Ray Pearson, including his original preamble about his writing being fiction, along with his other fantasy fights in his fantasy fight series and with other papers reporting the locations and lack there of, of the fighters, I'm a bit under motivated to prove this was bull****. I can't prove it's any more bull**** than I did Ray's work. Once you have members denying the original report TF can you do?



This is a claim by a no-name guy in a 60's boxing mag that features one name you know, rules that have never existed, and the source is himself...... Really? We is gonna believe dis and wonder why BoxRec got no record of this joker.