Jim Jeffries or Jack Johnson

[Willie Pep 229]

McVea, age 19 in 7th fight against Johnson, Johnson in 11th fight. According to McVeigh's Wike record.. In Johnson's record on Wiki, his 11th fight was a KO loss in 3 against Joe Choynski

BUT on Johnson's record on Wike, more accurate as he was more famous,. was Johnson's 25th, of which he's lost 3, 3 No Decisions, and 6 draws, . He was K0'd a few time too... His record, in which most of his opponents were underlined, meaning that they also were reported on WIKI (contrary to Sam's record where NO opponents were underlined. and which doesn't show the 3 fights) Johnson's record shows he beat Sam McVea 3 times. He played with Langford who was at least 165 lbs, (and reputed to have been actually 185 at which weight he fought for most of his better career) I've read the old newspaper reports, which you haven't.

I don't know exactly what you're getting at, except to run down Johnson, the greatest Heavyweight fighter in History, until Joe Louis. . And. you may not know, Johnson saw that weakness that Joe had of bringing back his left a bit low, on which Schmeling capitalised. He told them so. but they ignored him.

I am not doubting a single sentence you wrote . . . But one always has to be wakeful of anything ever said about JJ or even by JJ himself.

P.S. You know that LondonRingRules is Queenie? So maybe he will respond, he's not a ghost post.

[QueensburyRules]

Jack no doubt. remember Corbett was past his prime when he fought big Jim. Corbett wore himself out by pounding Jeffries for 24 rounds. Jeffries landed one big shot and that was it. My point is if Corbett was a lot smaller but out boxed him with ease. I think Johnson a master boxer as well and the same size. Jack wins with ease. Jeffries had little to no skill. Johnson had the better career.

- - Except that Corbett was the proto Ali as far as moving around the ring.

JJ more like Jab and Grab John Ruiz stinking up every fight he could. See the Marvin Hart fight where the ref repeatedly warns him to fight to no avail. Jeff had not yet announced his retirement, and upon hearing about the fight decided there was nobody decent to fight to retire content in his career.

[Greb5000]

** Young Jackie didn't exactly set the world on fire coming up compared to Jeff.

Jim Jeffries was 7-1-1 in HOF fights, 41% of his entire career against 6 HOFers. Never understood how he could've fallen from the ranks as far as he has based upon a loss that in retrospect was an impossible task for any fighter in history.

By the close of 1901, Jeff was into his 3rd year as champ, 15-0-2 in 18 fights compared to his natural peer, Jack Johnson who was 4-3-4 in his 13 fights.

Johnson was also marked up badly with a 0-2-1 record against two fighters Jeff had already handled. Keep in mind that by box rec, both record their first pro fights within a year of each other.

Me thinks he was downgraded for a relative short career, but they always ignore the quality of Jeff's comp, the acclaim and criticism which distorts a fighter's life, and the money which afforded him luxuries well beyond the reach of 99% of the population and contributed to his well established massive weight gains between fights.

Jeff's title reign was also against much tougher comp than Johnson defended. No, JJ did not fight that tough of comp. He was beat by the best prime heavy he ever faced, and didn't beat that many decent prime heavies. He sorta lucked into the title when Burns skipped out of Paris without meeting the Langford title challenge. Burns instead sails with his man servant, best friend, and steady-eddie title challenger Bill Squires whom he defended against on 3 separate continents, a record of sorts.

Johnson was able to afford to sail to Australia down to the financial backing of an English sporting organization who's name escapes me, bound by contract to return to England and defend the title against Sam Langford who was the English Champ.

Usual suspects and the 8th grader puppy-poet consider this "hating" on Johnson, but similar overlaps up his record have already been established with the publication of Unforgivable Blackness, Papa Jack, and the Ken Burns bio-doc of Unforgivable Blackness.

The insatiable need for moderns to shoehorn great fighters and otherwise pound square blocks into round holes to satisfy what passes for intellectual musings is well established. I wouldn't say either or, but more like different talents and natures as they were the yin and yang of their eras.

Great posT

[The Old LefHook]

Jeff had too much brain and too much brawn for him.