joe calzaghe is no more of a fraud then sugar ray leonard

[Abstraction]

Calzaghe had the opportunity to face to "Boxing Legends" Prime v Prime : Hopkins and RJJ

He never, instead he decided to face mandatories in half-empty stadiums defending the shabby WBO belt.

Sorry, Fraud. End of discussion.

[Kid McCoy]

Calzaghe had the opportunity to face to "Boxing Legends" Prime v Prime : Hopkins and RJJ

He never, instead he decided to face mandatories in half-empty stadiums defending the shabby WBO belt.

Sorry, Fraud. End of discussion.

It was Hopkins who backed out of facing Calzaghe years ago, not vice versa. Jones wasn't exactly known for chasing the most dangerous opponents either.

Calzaghe's career is actually more similar to Hopkins' than you would ever credit it for. Hopkins too made a lot of defences of a fractured alphabet title, not unifying for 5-6 years. Hopkins spent much of his career defending against a motley crew of mandatories for small purses in small venues, and was virtually unknown to all but the hardiest of boxing aficionados before Tito and De La Hoya stepped up to give him big money megafights.

Imo none of the sanctioning bodes have much credibility, but the IBF is only five years older than the WBO, and has a far shadier history of corruption and double dealings, so I don't see why Hopkins' alphabet belt was any less shabby than Calzaghe's.

[Abstraction]

It was Hopkins who backed out of facing Calzaghe years ago, not vice versa. Jones wasn't exactly known for chasing the most dangerous opponents either.

Calzaghe's career is actually more similar to Hopkins' than you would ever credit it for. Hopkins too made a lot of defences of a fractured alphabet title, not unifying for 5-6 years. Hopkins spent much of his career defending against a motley crew of mandatories for small purses in small venues, and was virtually unknown to all but the hardiest of boxing aficionados before Tito and De La Hoya stepped up to give him big money megafights.

Imo none of the sanctioning bodes have much credibility, but the IBF is only five years older than the WBO, and has a far shadier history of corruption and double dealings, so I don't see why Hopkins' alphabet belt was any less shabby than Calzaghe's.

Hopkins and RJJ are not going to put much effort in going to face someone like Calzaghe, who back in 2001/2002 was a no-name (probably the same level as Lucian Bute or Carl Froch is today).

Calzaghe should have made the move to the US sooner.

I mean it's like saying Lucian Bute calling out Hopkins now and telling him to face him in Romania for 1 belt. Not going to happen.

BTW, Hopkins Career is leagues better than Calzaghe's.

Hopkins was undisputed for about 4 years.

Calzaghe had 1 belt for like 7 years. He became undisputed after 10 years, in arguably, the worst division and state of a division in the history of boxing. After he was undisputed, instead of fighting a young and established boxer like Pavlik, his "Fear of Flying" was suddenly cured when he heard RJJ and Hopkins were going to retire.

I really don't have to point this out. His long time promoter Frank Warren exposed Calzaghe the day he was sacked. Sweet irony

[Kid McCoy]

Hopkins and RJJ are not going to put much effort in going to face someone like Calzaghe, who back in 2001/2002 was a no-name (probably the same level as Lucian Bute or Carl Froch is today).

Calzaghe should have made the move to the US sooner.

I mean it's like saying Lucian Bute calling out Hopkins now and telling him to face him in Romania for 1 belt. Not going to happen.

BTW, Hopkins Career is leagues better than Calzaghe's.

Hopkins was undisputed for about 4 years.

Calzaghe had 1 belt for like 7 years. He became undisputed after 10 years, in arguably, the worst division and state of a division in the history of boxing. After he was undisputed, instead of fighting a young and established boxer like Pavlik, his "Fear of Flying" was suddenly cured when he heard RJJ and Hopkins were going to retire.

I really don't have to point this out. His long time promoter Frank Warren exposed Calzaghe the day he was sacked. Sweet irony

You said earlier that Calzaghe "had the opportunity" to face Hopkins and Jones but didn't take it. Now you claim they had no interest in facing a "no name" like him anyway. Which is it? As I said above, it was Hopkins who backed out of the Calzaghe fight, not vice versa. It was also Hopkins' inflated ego which cost him a Jones rematch.

Btw, on the subject of "fear of flying", I was always disappointed that Jones never overcame his to go to Germany to take on Dariusz. But in the interest of fairness, I'll also say that Calzaghe should have faced Ottke. Hopkins was hardly Phileas Fogg either.

It took Hopkins six years to become undisputed champion and Calzaghe ten. Hopkins made 20 defences of his alphabet belts and Calzaghe 21. Was Hopkins' opposition at 160 really substantially better than Calzaghe's at 168? Guys like Allen, Eastman, Holmes, Joppy etc were not bad fighters but they weren't murderers' row either. His marquee wins against De La Hoya and Tito can be picked apart just as much as Calzaghe's against Kessler and Lacy. For every Manfredo that Calzaghe beat Hopkins had a Hakkar. Then Hopkins moved up to beat the Ring light-heavy champ, as did Calzaghe. There's really not much in it.

For the record I rate Hopkins' career as better than Calzaghe's, but there's not much in it and it certainly isn't "leagues better".

[Southpaw16BF]

You said earlier that Calzaghe "had the opportunity" to face Hopkins and Jones but didn't take it. Now you claim they had no interest in facing a "no name" like him anyway. Which is it? As I said above, it was Hopkins who backed out of the Calzaghe fight, not vice versa. It was also Hopkins' inflated ego which cost him a Jones rematch.

Btw, on the subject of "fear of flying", I was always disappointed that Jones never overcame his to go to Germany to take on Dariusz. But in the interest of fairness, I'll also say that Calzaghe should have faced Ottke. Hopkins was hardly Phileas Fogg either.

It took Hopkins six years to become undisputed champion and Calzaghe ten. Hopkins made 20 defences of his alphabet belts and Calzaghe 21. Was Hopkins' opposition at 160 really substantially better than Calzaghe's at 168? Guys like Allen, Eastman, Holmes, Joppy etc were not bad fighters but they weren't murderers' row either. His marquee wins against De La Hoya and Tito can be picked apart just as much as Calzaghe's against Kessler and Lacy. For every Manfredo that Calzaghe beat Hopkins had a Hakkar. Then Hopkins moved up to beat the Ring light-heavy champ, as did Calzaghe. There's really not much in it.

For the record I rate Hopkins' career as better than Calzaghe's, but there's not much in it and it certainly isn't "leagues better".

I guess you make some good points, my just my view on a few things you said there
''I was always disappointed that Jones never overcame his to go to Germany to take on Dariusz''
I think Jones had good reason to after what had happend in the 88 games, 2 Jones was the pound for pound king, but yet he is traveling to face Dariusz who is'nt even in the P4P ranking, and who Jones is ranked above in the LHW divison at the time,and going to a country were there would of been a good chance he wound't of got a fair shout, as the Germans would probaly think if Dariuz can do this he may become p4p king something the Germany population would of loved and would of brought alot of mainstream to Germany and $$$.

So why not Dariusz come to the USA, were most of the Boxing world think its the place to prove your worth as a fighter?

''It was also Hopkins' inflated ego which cost him a Jones rematch''

When you say it was Hopkins ego that cound't get this fight made, you could say Jones had something to do with it as well. The fight was set, HBO put the fighters on a double header were they they both wins against Glen Kelly and Carl Daniels.This would then lead to both fighters fighting each other so HBO thought, the problem Jones wanted a 60/40 split and Hopkins wound't have none of this, and i can't really blame him.

In Jones last 10 fights he had fought mostly B to D oppostion, his best win coming against a faded Reggie Johnson/Eric Harding-who he really struggled with,other than that he'd fought unproven C level fighters etc Richard Frazier,Richard Hall,Otis Grant,Glen Kelly to name a few. And his place was starting to slip in the P4P rating, due to lack of oppostion.

Now Bernard Hopkins was fighting his share of C to B level of oppostion, but in spectacular fashion the before Danniels he had beaten/destroyed #1 p4p number Felix Trinidad who was 40-0 and a 3 weight world champion, at the time, and in a win that got him world wide recongiston and the number 1# p4p spot. Now i agree that Jones made the right move not going to Germany, but here was a fight which actually ment something, a fight which could help his his legacy, and a fight were he would of got the fans interest and respect.And a fight that would of been in the USA!

But yet he ask's for a ****** 60/40 split for him, when Hopkins is the p4p king/a Undisputed champion like himself and the fight before last had beaten Trinidad. But yet he still thinks he's worthy of a 60/40 split of a fight which happened 9 years ago between the two? and when he had been fighting unproven oppostion for the last few years? Jones let him self down here not doin a 50/50 split for this fight.

[strugler]

This is like heaven, reasonable factual posters, no racist comments, no sugar coating, carry on my brothers carry on.

[LondonRingRules]

Now i agree that Jones made the right move not going to Germany, but here was a fight which actually ment something, a fight which could help his his legacy, and a fight were he would of got the fans interest and respect.And a fight that would of been in the USA!

But yet he ask's for a ****** 60/40 split for him, when Hopkins is the p4p king/a Undisputed champion like himself and the fight before last had beaten Trinidad. .

** Roy would tell you he made a big mistake not going to Germany.

However it was Poppy who made the mistake of backing out of fights with Roy and Joe that Dibella had lined up for him after landing the Tito fight for him. Go check out the no names he reverts back to after Tito, doing the JMMarquez impersonation post Manny, fighting for peanuts and losing his status. Dibella sues him for breech of contract and wins a judgement of a couple of million.

The proposed bout was for Roy's belts and Roy was El Supremo p4p ruler over all in this frame and at least went on to his spectacular Ruiz win after which he was demanding 100 million to fight Tyson or Lewis. He certainly didn't need to reprise his Poppy or Toney victories for his legacy when there were bigger fish to fry like Lewis, Tyson, and DM. He would've made twice as much fighting DM at 50/50 as he made fighting Poppy at 60/40. You can sneer at DM all you want, but he's a HOF lock just as much as Poppy.

Poppy never made a dent in a gate until Tito and then Oscar comes along and takes him under his wing and makes some money for his stink style.

McCoy nails it when he notes the incredible similarities between Poppy and Super Joe, save when Super Joe consolidates his division he's fighting the latest prime undefeated natural weight champs in his division whereas both Tito and Oscar were up several divisions, but bigger stars in the boxing world.

The only legit natural weight class champ Poppy has a win over was the untested Glenn Johnson many years prior, a fight he's definitely not ever gonna reprise as Johnson represents what Poppy used to represent, a hard working blue collar guy showing up and doing the job without a big fan base.

Oh, I suppose we should count Pavlik in that vein as he did do a number on Kelly which rehabilitate his name after the SuperJoe disaster, though he should drop that ridiculous Executioner moniker since he can't pop a soap bubble.

I rank Joe over Poppy all time because not only did he beat him and make him quit the fight, but overall he finishes up undefeated against stronger current comp. Roy in spite of tarnishing his legend towers over the both and should've properly demanded 70/30 against Poppy such was Poppy's drawing power. Maybe Poppy could get 50/50 now since both are beltless and lost to Super Joe in the same calender year.

Thing is that Roy and Joe both don't like him and don't want to do him any favors and I can't say I blame them as he's most likely gonna revert back to his stinker style in his next fight, so why bother? Glenn Johnson would fight him in a nanosecond though.

[C.Y.]

Wrong. Leonard beat all time great fighters in their prime, Calzaghe did not. I respect Calzaghe, but what prime names does he have that can even hold a candle to Benitez, Hearns and Duran? None.

You talk about the Hagler fight and how long it took Leonard to give Hearns a rematch. Simple fact is, Ray knocked Tommy out the first go round and had no obligation to give Hearns a rematch at all. Sure, I would have liked to have seen it sooner myself, but it doesn't change the fact Ray had already stopped him.

As far as the Hagler fight is concerned and how you view Leonard as waiting for Hagler to get old.....lets just say he did. But don't you think its worth mentioning that Leonard hadn't fought in nearly 3 years?

Calzaghe? Like I said, Leonard beat all time greats in their prime, Joe didn't. and if you're going to say Leonard made Hearns wait.......isn't Calzaghe doing the same thing to "old man" Hopkins?

sorry bruh you're wrong on this one..
Tommy Hearns and Leonard fought an epic 1st fight.. a fight that Hearns was winning and was outboxing Leonard until he ran out of gas and got caught.. there should of been an immediate rematch.. the 1st fight was a classic..

in regards to Hagler, Leonard wanted no part of a prime Hagler.. He even admitted to waiting for hagler to basically fall off before he decided to challenge him.. i'll take a fresh fighter over a worn out, no longer prime, no longer hungry fighter.. and Leonard didnt even win that fight imo.. his wife and brother thought he lost too..
not to mention Leonard avoided Pryor his entire amateur and pro career..

didnt you say "so what if leonard waited for hagler to get old" and then said Leonard beat everyone in their primes???

naw sorry bruh he didnt..

[JAB5239]

sorry bruh you're wrong on this one..
Tommy Hearns and Leonard fought an epic 1st fight.. a fight that Hearns was winning and was outboxing Leonard until he ran out of gas and got caught.. there should of been an immediate rematch.. the 1st fight was a classic..

in regards to Hagler, Leonard wanted no part of a prime Hagler.. He even admitted to waiting for hagler to basically fall off before he decided to challenge him.. i'll take a fresh fighter over a worn out, no longer prime, no longer hungry fighter.. and Leonard didnt even win that fight imo.. his wife and brother thought he lost too..
not to mention Leonard avoided Pryor his entire amateur and pro career..

didnt you say "so what if leonard waited for hagler to get old" and then said Leonard beat everyone in their primes???

naw sorry bruh he didnt..

I said Leonard beat all time great fighters in their prime, not every all time fighter he beat was prime. simple fact is Calzaghe didn't. Go back to my post and find one thing that isn't factually true. I don't think you will be able to.

[C.Y.]

Also, Leonard had only fought once in 5 years when he stepped into the ring with Hagler. Hardly an advantage?! If you think Hagler was shot at that point go and watch his previous fight against Mugabi. His skills may have been on the slide at that point, but he was far from shot.

Additionally Leonard has wins against Benitez and Duran. Please explain how this makes him a fraud?

You are giving us Brits a very bad name

its called having a war.. did you even watch the fight? do you watch hagler fights for that matter? they had an all out war.. Hagler was already on the decline when he fought Mugabi and that fight with Mugabi sent him further down.. that fight is the reason Leonard wanted to fight Hagler.. i could go further into detail about the full story but i'll save that for later