Stanley Ketchel

[Khmelnytsky]

some of you seems to really know your stuff, i wanted to mention one thing and ask a question, first at the end of the johnson fight he knocks ketchel out with a right hand and "picks his teeth out of his glove" but its his left glove he is pawing at, so that is a typical johnson b.s. story,

and my question, you usually hear how they had an arrangment to go the distance and Ketchel broke it and thats when he dropped him, but i'v read an article(i think by Mike Casey) talking about him getting footage of the entire fight and watching it for the first time, the way he described it was them two going at it all out from round one and he was adamant that the Johnson story about an agreement and him going easy on Ketchel was bs

Most likely just wanted to save face seeing as a 158lb middleweight hurt him bad, opinions on this?

[StarshipTrooper]

No 1 could hit as hard as Ketchel today

None that I can think of. Going back a few years maybe Nigel Benn.

Poet

[Yogi]

some of you seems to really know your stuff, i wanted to mention one thing and ask a question, first at the end of the johnson fight he knocks ketchel out with a right hand and "picks his teeth out of his glove" but its his left glove he is pawing at, so that is a typical johnson b.s. story,

and my question, you usually hear how they had an arrangment to go the distance and Ketchel broke it and thats when he dropped him, but i'v read an article(i think by Mike Casey) talking about him getting footage of the entire fight and watching it for the first time, the way he described it was them two going at it all out from round one and he was adamant that the Johnson story about an agreement and him going easy on Ketchel was bs

Most likely just wanted to save face seeing as a 158lb middleweight hurt him bad, opinions on this?

A quick reply because I'm largely going on memory for this, but it's possible that Johnson did have to wipe of Ketchel's teeth from his glove, as there was no doubt that Ketchel did lose two or three of his upper front teeth, which he himself said came from that final blow landed by Johnson. Those interviewing Ketchel in the immediate aftermath also noted in their reports that he was missing some teeth, and you can also find quotes in the papers from the time from Ketchel's manager saying that he had two of them in his possession, and was planning on making something out of them (dice, maybe? Can't remember exactly).

I can't say one way or the other if the story about Ketchel's teeth being stuck in Johnson's glove is true, but I wouldn't totally discount it...Sometimes when I have an itch in my right hand I'll scratch it with my left hand, or even by rubbing it against my left hand/arm or something.

As far as whether the fight was on the level or not, I'll just say that there were a lot of suspicious things going on in the build up to the fight as reported in the papers, as well as in the aftermath*. Also there was plenty of controversy surrounding if that punch from Ketchel even landed (including quotes from Johnson saying that it landed on his jaw, but then later changing his story to it landing behind his head), with most in attendance and viewing from the ringside area thinking that it didn't...Even watching the fight as often as I have over the years, I myself have never been convinced on that being a legitimate knockdown or not.

*One of those being that Ketchel was reported to have bought a brand new fancy car for a substancial sum of money only a couple of days after the fight, which raised questions as to where he got the money because his loser end of the purse was said to only be in the neighborhood of $6,000 to $7,000, which should have been mostly lost due to him having a much publicized $5,000 side bet with Johnson on the outcome...His car that he was being seen driving around in was said to have cost much, much more than the thousand or two Ketchel would had left over from the fight.

There was also some prefight talk of some arrangents being made when the fight was rumoured to be off only a couple/few days before scheduled, some suspicious meetings between Johnson and the promoter (Coffroth) about movie rights, including one said to have taken place in the wee hours of the morning (after midnight), which was said to have happened during the time when the fight was in danger of being called off. Reports that the "wise" had it on good athority that it wouldn't go 15, etc., etc. Things like and other stuff that where suspicions went well beyond, but included what happened in the ring on that occasion.

I'd have to read through all that stuff again to paint a completely accurate picture of what I'd like to say, but the fight was heavily covered by the press during the time and it would be quite timely reading up on all that.

[phallus]

Ah, I'm not really big on ranking fighters most days, my friend, but if I was ranking history's great middleweights, Greb would be right near, or even at the very top of such a thing.

yeah, me too. i wish we had more film of greb, he's one of my favorite of the old guys. even in the film of him screwing around with the bag that i've seen, he looked pretty fast, and i've read about how he beat up johnny wilson and mickey walker while he only had one eye

[Brunswick Assassin]

Stanley Ketchel is one of the Greatest Middleweights of 'All-Time!' Had serious kryptonite in both hands (49kos in 52 fights - total 64fights). Extremely strong Middleweight, wearing men down before breaking them in the clinches.

Good chin and great stamina i.e. winning one fight with a 32nd round KO and venturing past 17 rounds 10 times. KOd 4 Middleweight Champions and Light Heavy Champ Jack O'Brien, lasted distance with a peak Sam Langford and dropped Jack Johnson.

Ketchel failed to rise above the limitations of his era such as upright stance, slow feet and not throwing combinations, only throwing single punches. He was also a self-taught brawler who could be outboxed.