Tyson being past his prime when Douglas beat him???

[Roger Yomama]

Great heavyweights deal with adversity, something that Tyson has never shown in his peak years. For example, look at Ali against Cooper. Ali took him lightly and paid a price and was very badly hurt and seemingly on his way out, the difference is that he got up and proved that he was great by dealing with it, buckling down and coming back and stopping Cooper. I would have understood if Tyson was in the fight and it was close, but he was not only dominated but knocked out by this guy. I completely understand that Douglas was talented and had the tools and ability to do something, however it looks bad for Tyson for the simple fact that it was the best Douglas has ever looked in his entire career an he was not even close to being great nor elite. Evander Holyfield( an elite fighter and all time great) took Douglas apart in his very next fight. Look at the opposition that Ali, Louis, Frazier and Foreman lost to and look at Tyson's. My thing is that he has never shown me anything that indicated that he was great and every time that he stepped up against the elites, he lost. Again, the man had every tool to be one of if not the greatest, but talent and your accomplishments are very different.

Nuff said

[slicksouthpaw16]

again you're spewing nonsense. When Johnson fought Jeanette, Joe was only entering his pro ranks, he was no where the veteran of 160 + fights, he was fighting a solid pro like Johnson with barely 10 fights to his credit, and continued getting schooled with no decisions and losses because he wasnt experienced enough at that point. That's same as ali taking on a guy like Spinks, with **** all fights on his record. It's same as putting an amteur against a pro.

it's not about making excuses. lewis had a bad performance and a loss against mccal and you say he was green. yet you criticise tyson for having a bad night with tillis, when tyson was still green. You dont give the same respect to tyson that you give to other fighters.

it's getting really frustrating trying to get a point across, because no matter how truthfull it is, you'll always dismiss it, and start with your broken record. you got this know-it-all attitude, eventhough your knowledge is very limited and based on opinions, and when you post, you basically say **** everyone's elses knowledge, im the one who's right. that ignorance really shows

i came to conclusion, that you're either an idiot (dont take it bad) or just too damn stubborn and ignorant and keep charging a brick wall like an angry bull

i mean for Pete's sake, you wrote paragraph after paragraph arguing that Klitschko-Purity fight was stopped by referee and not Wlad's corner, even when other posters have showed you youtube clips before your very eyes. Even then you kept arguing for God's sake

every poster here came up with legitimate opinions and facts, you didnt aknowledge either one, and keep on rambaling like a broken record changing your criteria just as long as it satisfys you.

dont take it as a flame, but id hate to run into someone like you in real life. Needless to say, i would not enjoy the pleasure of your company when discussion something with you

even the dumbest of the dumb posters would admit that they are wrong by now. You are just plain and simple, ignorant.

You are crazy if you actually think i will respond to this ignorant hugging post . You really need to read up your history and revsit Johnson. You have some nerve to accuse Johnson of ducking people that he actually fought AND beat when Tyson avoided even the elite fighters when he was in his prime. Anyway you look at it, hes greater than Tyson.

I think what creates so much discussion and confusion about this is how it is worded, and lack of knowledge.

Doesn't really take a rocket scientist to see that Tyson was undisputed champion, unbeaten and was in his prime years.

So to answer this very old question again the best way I can, no Tyson wasn't past his prime when Douglass beat him.

[Boogie Nights]

You have some nerve to accuse Johnson of ducking people that he actually fought AND beat when Tyson avoided even the elite fighters when he was in his prime. Anyway you look at it, hes greater than Tyson.

I have never accused Johnson of ducking. way to twist words. all i said was that johnson stopped giving black contenders a shot at his title once he began his reign at heavyweight. some of the best contenders at that time were black, who never got to become champions

like i said before Johnson fought jeannette when Joe barely had 10 pro fights to his credit. He was nowhere near the fighter that he became, the time Johnson fought him, Jeanette had no experience whatsoever, if you cant see that than id have to guess you're an idiot

You arguements sound more and more childish. You dont have enough knowledge or information, except for what you find on box rec. You dont have the background info on the losses, wins, the circumstances surrounding those fights. You still a rookie to put it softly.

Everyone's opinion here is unanimous, you come in here like a ******ed glob trying to argue something that you dont even know

here's your knowledge of tyson

I pay a lot of attention to the circumstances of the fighters and the quality. Larry Holmes was coming off of a two year lay off. Spinks was a blown up light heavyweight with questionable wins over Larry Holmes ect. Tyson avoided all of the elite names of his era, Tyson avoided fighting Evander in his prime, Lewis in his prime, Ray Mercer, Witherspoon, the Foreman of the 90s, Riddock Bowe and a lot of others. He was protected and with the exception of Witherspoon, i would have favored all of them over Tyson.

now you can cry like a little girl, and put me on your ignore

[slicksouthpaw16]

I have never accused Johnson of ducking. way to twist words. all i said was that johnson stopped giving black contenders a shot at his title once he began his reign at heavyweight. some of the best contenders at that time were black, who never got to become champions

Your posts are so pathetic that you don't even read them. This is called accusing someone of avoiding. You are basically saying that Johnson avoided Langford and other black heavyweights when he was champion. You have the nerve, Tyson avoided plenty of fighters. These are fighters that Johnson actually beat.

You also dont state the fact that when Johnson won the title he stopped giving other black contenders a chance to fight for the title. those same contenders like Sam Langford who got more experienced and was getting himself in the rankings, not the fresh version that Johnson first fought

ike i said before Johnson fought jeannette when Joe barely had 10 pro fights to his credit. He was nowhere near the fighter that he became, the time Johnson fought him, Jeanette had no experience whatsoever, if you cant see that than id have to guess you're an idiot

Yeah, he beat Jeanette about 9 times and 6 in one year. Find something else to accuse him of doing. Did Tyson even fight a prime Holyfield, Lewis, or Mercer even one time?

You arguements sound more and childish. You dont have enough knowledge or information, except for what you find on box rec. You dont have the background info on the losses, wins, the circumstances surrounding those fights. You still a rookie to put it softly.

I probably know more about your favorite fighters than you do. Again i was raised around boxing. I only go to boxrec when i forget the dates. You question my knowledge when you are the one who stated that Tyson fought better fighters than Louis, a thread in which over a half of boxingscene not only disagreed but laughed at you in. You are so insecure that you have to look at my profile after you post to see when/if i an responding to it.

Everyone's opinion here is unanimous, you come in here like a ******ed glob trying to argue something that you dont even know

here's your knowledge of tyson

Your knowledge of Johnson is going to boxrec and looking at losses and who beat him, completely ignoring who he did beat and how many times he beat the fighters that you accuse him of avoiding. I suggest you get his documentary on DVD (Unforgiveable Blackness) or his biography and start to actually learn.

[Boogie Nights]

here's what i wrote about joe louis opposition and tyson's in my thread

im of the opinion that tyson's opponents were no worse than any of the ones joe has beaten

accomplishment wise louis brings more to the table. but i dont like it when people take it to the extreme, and say that louis had a better resume

the only people who had a problem with that are nuthuggers and haters like Poet, and you, who doesnt know a lick about boxing history

you really tell me tyson couldnt hang with guys like galento, baer, schmeling, godoy, walcott, and his 'bum of the month' club defences, where he went to different city each month to fight an unknown opponent

arguing with you is like talking to a brick wall. you make up things, try to act like you some historian. i couldnt give a **** about your family of boxing, that means nothing to me. i dont evenm give a **** about who you are. your reputation does nothing for me

i see ******ity and hypocrisy. you downgrade tyson for exact same reasons you praise other fighters.

[Boogie Nights]

Did Tyson even fight a prime Holyfield, Lewis, or Mercer even one time?

and are you really asking me to reply to this nonesense

i could ask you the same thing. did evander fight prime tyson? no, but in your opinion and wisdom tyson is the one who ducked because he had an injury, despite the fight being signed. You dont even know that, other members have told you that in your other thread, and you kept sitting there clapping with your eyes like an idiot

yeah, tyson never fought Lewis in his prime, but i know for sure Lewis fought tyson when any journeyman in the world could knock him out

where's the evidence he was ducking mercer? where? because you said so, i can ask why Mercer was ducking tyson? what you gonne say, huh?

what a ****ing child you are, geez

[slicksouthpaw16]

and are you really asking me to reply to this nonesense

i could ask you the same thing. did evander fight prime tyson? no, but in your opinion and wisdom tyson is the one who ducked because he had an injury, despite the fight being signed. You dont even know that, other members have told you that in your other thread, and you kept sitting there clapping with your eyes like an idiot

No Evander didn't fight a prime Tyson because Tyson never wanted the fight. Instead, he fought a prime Bowe, prime Mercer and a prime Lewis. He beat Bowe and Mercer and fought to a draw with Lewis. Again, you are in no position to be accusing anyone of avoiding the elite. Funny how that was one of the few injuries that prime Tyson had. It would have looked better for Tyson if it was Holfyield exposing him instead of Douglas.

yeah, tyson never fought Lewis in his prime, but i know for sure Lewis fought tyson when any journeyman in the world could knock him out

where's the evidence he was ducking mercer? where? because you said so, i can ask why Mercer was ducking tyson? what you gonne say, huh?

what a ****ing child you are, geez

Lewis has not only fought but beaten far better fighters than Tyson has. Lewis wanted Tyson but again, there is a reason why the fight was never made. There is something wrong when the elites want to fight you and the fight never gets signed.

You are staring to sound more and more like a true hugger. Mercer ducked Tyson? Lewis avoiding Tyson now? lol. Everyone wanted a part of the Tyson sweeptakes in the mid 90's after Tyson was released. Mercer wanted him and Lews did as well.

[Boogie Nights]

Tyson only had one injury against Evander, and the fight was signed, i dont know how many times you have to be told. There was a press conference for this even after the injury. Tyson was signed to fight evander after douglas, he lost, and instead the fight never came off because evander was in position to fight for the belts that douglas won from mike. Buster was offered some 30 mill to fight evander, and Holyfield would be a challenger. Again what the hell are you spewing about Mike ducking Evander????

mike also had injuries before the ruddock and mathis fight among others, did he duck them too? you'll say no because he already fought them, so unfourtanetly you cannot make that excuse right.

they had an in HBO studio presentation, where mike was literally begging Douglas to fight him instead of Evander. i recommend you check this video out



lennox had a chance to fight mike late in the 90s, but he refused

instead he chose to fight mike when he was basically damaged goods

[slicksouthpaw16]

Tyson only had one injury against Evander, and the fight was signed, i dont know how many times you have to be told. There was a press conference for this even after the injury. Tyson was signed to fight evander after douglas, he lost, and instead the fight never came off because evander was in position to fight for the belts that douglas won from mike. Buster was offered some 30 mill to fight evander, and Holyfield would be a challenger. Again what the hell are you spewing about Mike ducking Evander????

mike also had injuries before the ruddock and mathis fight among others, did he duck them too? you'll say no because he already fought them, so unfourtanetly you cannot make that excuse right.

they had an in HBO studio presentation, where mike was literally begging Douglas to fight him instead of Evander. i recommend you check this video out



lennox had a chance to fight mike late in the 90s, but he refused

instead he chose to fight mike when he was basically damaged goods

Tyson's management obviously didn't agree with him becuase Douglas wanted the rematch as well. Tyson's people were only interested in rebuilding his career before getting back into the title picture. Tyson has always made claims about wanting to fight Lewis, Holyfield ect, he was saying that to not make himself look bad. That video proves abolutely nothing be to honest. You have to look at what was going on at the time and the circumstances, not what Tyson's claims that he wants to do. He also called out a Lion and a Gorrila, but does that mean he really wanted to do it? Also, you seem to clearly not see that there is somthing fishy about Tyson getting his only injury when he signed to fight Holyfield. Hmmmmmmmmm

On Lewis/Tyson. Aparrently Don King paid Lewis step aside money so Tyson wouldn't have to face him. This is an article that i found in my research.

''The World Boxing Council wants Tyson to defend against Lennox Lewis of England, a former champion and now its No. 1 contender. Lewis turned down a $13.5 million guarantee to fight Tyson. Lewis then accepted $4 million from King to step aside and allow Tyson to fight Seldon, with the provison that Tyson, assuming he beat Seldon, would fight Lewis next. Tyson is expected to receive $30 million for fighting Seldon.

Now Lewis's handlers say they will guarantee Tyson $45 million to fight Lewis, but Tyson seems more interested in fighting Evander Holyfield, a former champion. If Tyson bypasses Lewis, the W.B.C. will strip Tyson of his title for refusing to fight its top-ranked contender. It would then match Lewis and Oliver McCall, its second-ranked contender, for the vacant title. If all those things happened, the next big fight would probably be the Lewis-McCall winner against -- who else? -- Tyson.

And Rid**** Bowe, another former champion, wants to get into the picture. Bowe fights Andrew Golota next Thursday night at Madison Square Garden, but he said his main targets were fights with Lewis or Tyson or both.

"I believe they called off the Tyson fight because of money," Bowe said on a hastily arranged conference call. "I don't think tickets were selling that good. If they want to make money, I'm the guy to fight. I'm available."

When Tyson was asked Monday what Seldon should be thinking, he said, "Don't show up." Now Tyson is the one not showing up. ''

[butterfly1964]

You asked what made him a great fighter, and i stated that him beating Louis(the second greatest heavyweight of all time) puts him there. Before beating Louis, he was a very good fighter as well. He won many European heavyweight titles and he also beat Young Stribbling for the World heavyweight title so he was never at any point was at a journeyman status. Again, Douglas was a journeyman that had already lost his biggest fights up until Tyson.

Schmeling didn't win the title against Stribling, he won the title against Sharkey on a low blow. Schmeling was getting the crap beat out of him by Sharkey for 4 rounds and then Sharkey accidentally hit him low, and Schmeling couldn't continue so they disqualified Sharkey. Schmeling was seemed as washed up before he fought Louis and many peole feared for Schmeling's life in that fight. Douglas was a top-rated contender when he fought Tyson. and had some good wins, so he was definetely not a bum.