Marciano was overrated and not an ATG.

[Rafael Benitez]

"Even then he cheated in that fight too"

Left hooks to the chin are illegal? Well ****.


"I was referring to the fact that he avoided Arnold Cream who said he would only fight again to thrash that bum. Anyway, who the **** was Arnold Cream. "

Dumbass. Arnold Cream was Walcott's real name. Marciano gave him his rematch and knocked him out with a clean left to the chin. He maybe could have beat the count, but I believe Walcott claimed to have blacked out during the count or he just didn't want to get hit anymore.


Well, this was fun but I'm already bored. I guess I should go lynch people or something.

You are dumb. I know it was his real name, that's why I said it to weed out the prawn and cucumber sandwich fans. Just because you know his real name do you want a medal? I mentioned the rematch too. Yeah, he did cheat in the first round and you avoided the main question mate. Who the **** was Arnold Cream anyway? He made a meal out of a fight with an old man.

Rafael is Spanish, isn't that white.

Exactly! Also Fernando Torres is so white he has freckles and I think he can go down as the best athlete of all time after he wins the quadruple and World Cup in the same year!

Also, how does saying he is overrated because he is white and white people thought they were superior suggest I dislike him because he is white? I am merely making observations of the nature of 1950's society. It helps us understand why people from that era like Bert Sugar swing on his balls. Because the entire society of his time were swinging on the white mans balls! They actually thought he could beat ALI as recently as the 70's and 80's!!!

Marciano was slow, overrated and from a different era. People are delusional if they think he could **** with bigger better HW's from a later era.

he fought tomato cans, that's about it. People must think he will magically gain speed and movement if he fought better fighters.

Poet and his few friends should just make a separate forum boasting about "the good old days". Their he can talk about how great john L Sullivan was and rivalries like Archie Moore vs Mike Tyson o0o0o0o

LMAO!!! And they call me the tight one!

[Keleneki]

People should stop taking FANTASY MATCHUPS so seriously. That DOES NOT negate a fighter's accomplishments and sure as heck doesn't determine one's greatness.

It will always be speculation, no one can say for sure who would beat who. Mainly because it's too difficult to compare diffirent eras, and Boxing can be that unpredictable.

What truly determines a fighter's greatness is his accomplishments in his own era, and respectively look at his own abilities.

Rocky Marciano did everything he could in his era untill his own physical endurance forced him to leave the sport he accomplished everything he could in. His record holds some great names in(they weren't all 'old men') he had plenty of defences, and the manner in which he won by facing so much adversity at times make his wins that much greater.

So please, when you judge Marciano's legacy don't just match him up against other fighters from diffirent eras, looking at size only and base your conclusions on that. It is redicilous and discredits a great man and fighter like Rocky Marciano.

QFT! While is may be entertaining to make fantasy matchups with fighters through the history of boxing, that is all they are ... fantasy matchups. It's next to impossible to compare boxers from different eras given that the landscapes are so drastically different.

[Thunder Lips]

"I mentioned the rematch too. Yeah, he did cheat in the first round and you avoided the main question mate."

Your words:

He struggled with Walcott who was average, slow and ever so OLD. It took a dirty shot and there was never to be a rematch in segregated america that needed their hero so bad.

I don't have to tell you who Walcott was. His accomplishments and praise from actual countless experts speak for themselves; your endless bitching on this forum can't change that and your certainly not going to sway my opinion when you **** up the most simple of facts off the bat.

[them_apples]

LaStarza would later comment how hard Rocky was to find in the rematch and Ali would make a similar comment about how tough his stance was to figure out when they were sparring for their fantasty fight video.

he also siad he would woop that old man

[Rafael Benitez]

QFT! While is may be entertaining to make fantasy matchups with fighters through the history of boxing, that is all they are ... fantasy matchups. It's next to impossible to compare boxers from different eras given that the landscapes are so drastically different.

BULL****. The educated mind can compare different era by closely looking at the quality of the competitors and the strength in depth of the division at the time. How else do people come to the conclusion that the 70's is universally recognised as the most strongest heavyweight era????

[Rafael Benitez]

"I mentioned the rematch too. Yeah, he did cheat in the first round and you avoided the main question mate."

Your words:

He struggled with Walcott who was average, slow and ever so OLD. It took a dirty shot and there was never to be a rematch in segregated america that needed their hero so bad.

I don't have to tell you who Walcott was. His accomplishments and praise from actual countless experts speak for themselves; your endless bitching on this forum can't change that and your certainly not going to sway my opinion when you **** up the most simple of facts off the bat.

I meant a rematch after the second fight. The public wanted but why did he not give it to him? He made the old fool retire instead.

Yeah he gets praise from experts so what? His accomplishments ARE outstanding mainly because he was competitive at such a ripe old age! It does speak for itself but so does the fact that Marciano struggled with a slow old man! Mate you don't have single answer for that one do you? The fact that Walcott would not even make it as a sparring partner in the 70's is a fact you crackers can't deal with. Before I get accused of racism by you ladies again, I would like to say that Quarry would wipe the floor with Walcott and that is a fact! I never said they were not good for their time and did not entertain, which is what our great sport is all about. All I am saying is Marciano is not an all time great and is overrated. He would not make it in top ten and would not have been known is 70's. he acheived alot for a small guy in a dead era. Good on him, but the small turd wouldhave been flushed in any decent era including the early 90's!

[Thunder Lips]

"I meant a rematch after the second fight. The public wanted but why did he not give it to him? He made the old fool retire instead. "

Sigh. Yeah, I'm sure that's what you meant.....

You would be better off admiting you weren't aware of their rematch because this statement is just ****y goofy to anyone who saw the rematch. A third fight? In their second fight, Walcott ran for his life and got knocked goofy by a short hook in the first. He claimed to start having "blackouts" and out of fear for his health retired.

-Walcott's manager told later that Walcott was in a very depressed mood in
the dressing room and they couldn't get his spirits up. He acted like
someone being led to an execution. On the way to the ring, his manager said
he took Jersey's Joe's elbow to guide him and could feel him trembling with
fear. He said he realized that Walcott was terrified of Marciano and if he
was knocked down he wouldn't try very hard to get up.

In fairness to Jersey Joe, consider just how devastating a KO he suffered in
the first fight. He was knocked completely unconsious, not just stunned. It
took several minutes to revive him and people at ringside feared he was
dead. A tv exec at ringside said he thought, "Oh my God, he's killed him on
live television!"

Other ringsiders, such as A. J. Leibling, also thought at first that Walcott
had suffered a fatal knockout. You don't see those type KO's very often,
where the fighter freezes in place, then the body just collapses because
there are no more signals coming from the brain. Most KO victims say they
are aware they are down but unable to get up, or they are confused and
aren't sure if they are down or not.


And anyone who thinks Walcott was a slow old man simply can't be took serious. You might as well talk about how sloppy Ali's footwork was. Walcott was known for his quick hands until the end of his career and this is apparent in the Marciano fight. The experts may not be always right but they are rarely this ****ing blind.

[Rafael Benitez]

"I meant a rematch after the second fight. The public wanted but why did he not give it to him? He made the old fool retire instead. "

Sigh. Yeah, I'm sure that's what you meant.....

You would be better off admiting you weren't aware of their rematch because this statement is just ****y goofy to anyone who saw the rematch. A third fight? In their second fight, Walcott ran for his life and got knocked goofy by a short hook in the first. He claimed to start having "blackouts" and out of fear for his health retired.

-Walcott's manager told later that Walcott was in a very depressed mood in
the dressing room and they couldn't get his spirits up. He acted like
someone being led to an execution. On the way to the ring, his manager said
he took Jersey's Joe's elbow to guide him and could feel him trembling with
fear. He said he realized that Walcott was terrified of Marciano and if he
was knocked down he wouldn't try very hard to get up.

In fairness to Jersey Joe, consider just how devastating a KO he suffered in
the first fight. He was knocked completely unconsious, not just stunned. It
took several minutes to revive him and people at ringside feared he was
dead. A tv exec at ringside said he thought, "Oh my God, he's killed him on
live television!"

Other ringsiders, such as A. J. Leibling, also thought at first that Walcott
had suffered a fatal knockout. You don't see those type KO's very often,
where the fighter freezes in place, then the body just collapses because
there are no more signals coming from the brain. Most KO victims say they
are aware they are down but unable to get up, or they are confused and
aren't sure if they are down or not.


And anyone who thinks Walcott was a slow old man simply can't be took serious. You might as well talk about how sloppy Ali's footwork was. Walcott was known for his quick hands until the end of his career and this is apparent in the Marciano fight. The experts may not be always right but they are rarely this ****ing blind.

Hahaha, you mentioned Walcott's hand speed in comparison to Ali's legendary footwork! That is like comparing a hare to a tortoise. You really are a tool, and you simply can't answer the main issues I point out to you whereas I always address your issues. Could Walcott survive in the 70's? Answer that one and then get back to me.

As for the 'experts' you talk of. YES, he was relativeley quick in his old age but once again these are old farts who I am accusing of overrating Marciano with rose tinted glasses. They CAN be that ****ing blind because obviously they have to swing on Arnolds balls to legitimise the white bum! Instead of using secondary soruces why don't you use your own brain for a change? He was nowhere as dangerous as Ali, Frazier, Tyson or even Lewis (jab only) in the speed department. In ATGterms he was a slow old man! I agree with you, the experts rarely are that blind as I mentioned in my first posts. They surely saw Marcianos skin colour and got all wet like yourself!

Your Italicised report covers what people thought and events on the night. They have nothing to do with the fact that Walcott after a while did stay in shape and di want the fight, but Rocky was being too tight. Maybe out of disgust at his nose I overplayed it but the fact remains that Arnold Cream was nothing special and Marciano made a meal of him. You have no answer for the fact that the white boy was way too easy to hit and a Tyson stiff jab would have taken his head off. Even the Klit would acheive certain decapitation!!!

Try to address them issues instead of acting as an OAP's Barrister. I believe you call them defence attorney's but I shall call thee Thunder Lips QC! You also avoided the fact that Ezzard Charles was also an OAP, past his best and stretching the young guns to the limit. He was well into his thirties at the time of combat and had a long career for his age by todays standards. He had also amassed a dozen losses by then but 'The Rock' also made a meal of him and if I remember correctly went the distacne first time of asking.

He had already been beaten up a dozen times before that so don't bull**** me about on top of his game! He also was a top light-heavy and I do rate him, but there is still an element of rose tinted glasses in his evaluation by the elders in the game like Bert Bull****ter. I think you forget that you are talking to someone who actually collects tapes. While I may not remeber underwear sizes and exact details like you net geeks, I actually do see them fight which means I have a more realsitic assesment. Pull out all the stats you want but there is no way in hell he was anywhere near his best when they fought to a decision!IMO Archie Moore put up more of a fight.

If you were a decent QC (like Kavanagh QC on telly) you would mention that the disparity in comparing eras comes in the availabilty of training methods and techniques. Even in this respect Marciano would struggle in todays dead heavyweight category! He would probably have to compete at 175 or Cruiserweight where he would be decapitated by Haye! Not sheeploving Macca who has a glass chin though. I honestly do not rate Rocky as a heavyweight, because he is too easy to hit and too small. Even fat Sam Peter would trouble him. He was overrated and made in to a false demi-god because he was white in a segregated America where the status quo had to maintain their superiority complex and that is a FACT.

Tell me one reason why you think he could get stuck in there with the names I mentioned and I will admit you have a valid point! Why always on the defence panel and never bragging about his strengths? Explain to me how and why you think he can match Tyson et al! LMAO. No answer to that one too I bet! I'm waiting for someone to go on about his big punch which the old man dealt with first time of asking. I'll be waiting forever for someon to explain how his technique of blocking punches with his big nose would get him through one round with an 18 stone Lewis! White people, I tell thee! If Fatton had no Mayweather to face, he would be made into a Marciano styled demigod too. I am so glad there was someone to spank him silly and shut you up this time round.

[Thunder Lips]

He was overrated and made in to a false demi-god because he was white in a segregated America where the status quo had to maintain their superiority complex and that is a FACT.

Nice job getting banned. Maybe you can take a breath and sort out your racist issues.

BTW. Joe Louis was actually a huge fan favorite in his meeting with Marciano despite his skin color. Maybe you should take a lesson from great fans such as them. Rocky won fans over the years with his dramatic fights, heart, and work ethic. Many black fighters like Joe Fraizer also thought highly of Marciano and rank him highly.

[StarshipTrooper]

And he's BANNED!

Poet