Marciano was overrated and not an ATG.

[JAB5239]

You're kidding yourself and are not helping your credibility.

Ain't that the truth!!

[joseph5620]

Personaly I think walcott and his skills are very underrated. Not one heavyweight today matches him in terms of fotwork hand speed combonation punching or defense. Thats not to say Joe would beat todays giants, but just watchim him you can see how much more skilled he is than todays top fighters.

He also had a weak chin and lost plenty of fights. I won't underrate him but I won't overrate him either,by keeping his talent in perspective.

[JAB5239]

He also had a weak chin and lost plenty of fights. I won't underrate him but I won't overrate him either,by keeping his talent in perspective.

Whats up my friend? Haven't seen you post over here yet besides this. Looking forward to more from you!!

[joseph5620]

Whats up my friend? Haven't seen you post over here yet besides this. Looking forward to more from you!!

Not much, Jab. I just thought I would travel the boards a little more lol. Thanks!

[randy johnson]

NO NO NO Since Rocky Marciano fought and struggle with people like a 40 year old washed up middleweights like Moore and Charles then it must mean he would knock out 230 plus pound heavyweights in one round. He is ROCKY MARCIANO if you didnt know. Things that apply to other fighters dont apply to him. Even though he was only a light heavyweight or cruiserweight he was 10 times more powerful than any real 220 plus pound heavyweight. Even though Marciano took 9 rounds or so to knock out Moore a middleweight who was knocked out in his prime by middleweights it must mean he would knock out guys like Tua and McCall who were never knocked down as pros with one punch.

MARCIANO IS THE GREATEST HUMAN EVER...WAIT MARCIANO ISNT A HUMAN BEING HE IS A GOD. A GOD WITH NO TALENT AND SKILL.

[them_apples]

NO NO NO Since Rocky Marciano fought and struggle with people like a 40 year old washed up middleweights like Moore and Charles then it must mean he would knock out 230 plus pound heavyweights in one round. He is ROCKY MARCIANO if you didnt know. Things that apply to other fighters dont apply to him. Even though he was only a light heavyweight or cruiserweight he was 10 times more powerful than any real 220 plus pound heavyweight. Even though Marciano took 9 rounds or so to knock out Moore a middleweight who was knocked out in his prime by middleweights it must mean he would knock out guys like Tua and McCall who were never knocked down as pros with one punch.

MARCIANO IS THE GREATEST HUMAN EVER...WAIT MARCIANO ISNT A HUMAN BEING HE IS A GOD. A GOD WITH NO TALENT AND SKILL.

Ain't that the truth

[Thunder Lips]

The Frazier and Chuvalo fights are after exile. Ali lost his foot speed and mainly relied on different tricks and tactics. Pre exile Ali had beautiful foot movement and arsenal.

As others pointed out, the Chuvalo fight I referenced was in 66. This was the prime "stick and move" Ali that had just beat Liston for the Title and would close out his run with dominating wins over Williams and Terrell. Ali didn't get stripped of his title and took out of boxing until 67, this was when his first peak ended. He was at his absolute best against Chuvalo but as the fight wore down the constant pressure took a toll.

Also:


"Frazier and Chuvalo are also full fledge heavyweight that would still be considered heavyweights by todays standards, unlike Marciano who would only be considered a cruiserweight and a small one at that.. They were big enough to make that style work for them. Marciano has short arms, is a short guy himself at 5'10 and only weighed 185LBS."

Cooper was only 185 lbs when he was roughing up Ali in the grapple and hurting him with his left; actually dropping him in a famous moment. Cooper had a killer left unlike Chuvalo who didn't really have feared one punch power at the elite level regardless of how he weighed; Chuvalo did have much stronger workrate than the older Cooper and a good body attack. Marciano had all of this as well as a killer right, Ali would have his hands full I believe.

"Ali had different ways of jabbing where he would twist his left jab which would cut his opponents skin up, similar to the way he did with Cooper ect "

This wasn't unique to Cooper. He got deeply gashed in the eyebrow and the injury followed him his entire career, several of his losses before Ali were directly or indirectly the result of bleeding. Marciano had never been stopped on cuts, only once was it considered in the second Charles fight which most involved agree was from an accidental elbow catching his nose.

[hardmanbrit]

I like Marciano purely because he had real guts and he is the only undefeated Heavyweight Champion of the World in the entire history of the sport.

[Yogi]

the more you post here, the more i realize that you dont know **** about boxing. ali never went to prison in his exile, are you ******?

A few quick quotes from pages 209-210 of Ali's autobiography, "My Own Story", and with it being an autobio, obviously these are Ali in his own words;


"Even in exile I'm surrounded by people. I've never spent a night in jail. Could I accept the confinement?"

"And I follow him into what will eventually turn out to be a 10-day senetnce in the Miami dade County Jail. It comes two weeks before my Champburger restaurants are to open in Miami, a business venture Herbert has brought in so that I could earn revenue while being banned."

"Accompanied by Chauncy Eskeridge, I walk in to surrender myself to the county jail. They're suprised to see me. I'm fingerprinted and given some prison clothes, and before I'm assigned to my cell a short redfaced official says,..."

"I choose the cafeteria because an old convict in Chicago once told me it's the best place for a new prisoner, and I follow the guard to my cell. It's the size of four ordinary bedrooms except there's no furniture--just steel bunks covered with plastic mattresses and flimsy sheets and old army blankets. In the corner, a face bowl and a toilet. When I walk in, the door slams behind me and locks. I put my hands on the bars, look down the hall. The strangest feeling comes over me. I remind myself it's only for a few days."

Etc., etc., etc...Ali talks about his prison time over the next few pages after those quick quotes, and this stint in prison was the result of an old traffic violation which had taken place the year previous.

Also, his stint in prison was widely reported in the press at the time in a number of sources dated Dec 17th, 1968. For a small example;

"MIAMI, Fla, Dec 16th (AP)--Former heavyweight boxing champion Muhammad Ali went into Dade County Jail today to serve a ten-day sentence on an old traffic charge and said it would be good training if he had to serve his five-year term for draftdodging." - AP report dated Dec 17th, and printed in many different sources from the day, including the Washington Post which I'm taking the quote from directly.

Sorry to say, BP, but Ali did in fact go to prison during his exile from boxing.

[Boogie Nights]

A few quick quotes from pages 209-210 of Ali's autobiography, "My Own Story", and with it being an autobio, obviously these are Ali in his own words;


"Even in exile I'm surrounded by people. I've never spent a night in jail. Could I accept the confinement?"

"And I follow him into what will eventually turn out to be a 10-day senetnce in the Miami dade County Jail. It comes two weeks before my Champburger restaurants are to open in Miami, a business venture Herbert has brought in so that I could earn revenue while being banned."

"Accompanied by Chauncy Eskeridge, I walk in to surrender myself to the county jail. They're suprised to see me. I'm fingerprinted and given some prison clothes, and before I'm assigned to my cell a short redfaced official says,..."

"I choose the cafeteria because an old convict in Chicago once told me it's the best place for a new prisoner, and I follow the guard to my cell. It's the size of four ordinary bedrooms except there's no furniture--just steel bunks covered with plastic mattresses and flimsy sheets and old army blankets. In the corner, a face bowl and a toilet. When I walk in, the door slams behind me and locks. I put my hands on the bars, look down the hall. The strangest feeling comes over me. I remind myself it's only for a few days."

Etc., etc., etc...Ali talks about his prison time over the next few pages after those quick quotes, and this stint in prison was the result of an old traffic violation which had taken place the year previous.

Also, his stint in prison was widely reported in the press at the time in a number of sources dated Dec 17th, 1968. For a small example;

"MIAMI, Fla, Dec 16th (AP)--Former heavyweight boxing champion Muhammad Ali went into Dade County Jail today to serve a ten-day sentence on an old traffic charge and said it would be good training if he had to serve his five-year term for draftdodging." - AP report dated Dec 17th, and printed in many different sources from the day, including the Washington Post which I'm taking the quote from directly.

Sorry to say, BP, but Ali did in fact go to prison during his exile from boxing.

that's a nice piece of info Yogi and i appreciate that you shared with us, but it still doesnt validate slicksouthpaw's point. ali was in his his own cell and for only 10 days, that's nothing compared to the time that other convicts spend there. that's hardly even doing a 'hard time'. tyson did hard time, ike ibeabuchi is doing hard time, along with few other boxing characters. i dont think those 10days had anything to do with the decline in his ability, which is what southpaw directly pointed out.

it was ali's exile obviously that had effect. the ring inactivity, that week in jail didnt cause ali's ring inactivity as we all know.

it's not any different than calling Ali an actor, because he's done a few plays, and did a few musical gigs. He wasnt locked up in a cell for those 4 years sharing a pillow with another male. so i cant call ali a legit criminal yogi lol.

so one shouldnt use the terms "Prison", "Pre Prison" in reference to ali's exile

and please dont think im being to hard on slicksouthpaw. he was being a rude, disrespectful punk and totally deserved this kind of treatment. he created nasty lies about me and was being a punk, so he shouldnt get teary eyed about it as he's done much worse things. i wont give in to his tricks.