jack johnson vs rocky marciano

[Marchegiano]

No one knows anything about Johnson’s bones. What we do know was that his style was designed to nullify a swarmers offense. He would step inside quickly and relish the opportunity.

Yeah, the great mover Johnson was. We see and read about all the whiffs in the air he caused.

Used his guard for that, Marciano broke the bones of men who used their guard to nullify punching. They nullified it just fine and got KTFO after the damage to their arms was too much.


But Johnson's going to catch blows on his arms and be fine for 15 or more? Nonsense.

[HOUDINI563]

Some recent all time top ten lists:

Note the pattern that Johnson is typically rated over Marciano.

Richard O'Brien (Sports Illustrated Senior Editor) 2009

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Sonny Liston

Larry Holmes

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Rocky Marciano

Lennox Lewis


Bert Sugar, 2011 (Ultimate Book of Boxing Lists)

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

Gene Tunney

Rocky Marciano

George Foreman

Larry Holmes

Sam Langford

Joe Frazier


Teddy Atlas, 2011 (Ultimate Book of Boxing Lists)

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Jack Johnson

Rocky Marciano

Gene Tunney

Jack Dempsey

Sam Langford

John L. Sullivan

Larry Holmes

sonny Liston


Matt Hamilton, ***************.com, 2012

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Jack Johnson

Joe Frazier

Sam Langford

George Foreman

Jack Dempsey

Larry Holmes

Rocky Marciano

Gene Tunney


Tyson Bruce, www.*************.com, 2014

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Larry Holmes

Jack Johnson

Rocky Marciano

George Foreman

Lennox Lewis

Jack Dempsey

Evander Holyfield

Joe Frazier


Mike Casey, sites.google.com/site/alltimeboxingrankings, 2015

Jack Dempsey

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Rocky Marciano

Jim Jeffries

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Sonny Liston

Lennox Lewis


Tony Connolly, Boxing News, Dec 2015

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Larry Holmes

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Sonny Liston

Rocky Marciano

Lennox Lewis

Mike Tyson

[HOUDINI563]

Marciano was not a bone breaker first off. Secondly there is a reason why down through the decades that Johnson is typically rated over Marciano. Johnson was very comfortable fighting Marcianos style of opponent. A mover such as Ali or Holmes would have much more difficulty with Rocky as he would get inside and neither man had the skills to thwart that attack. Johnson however is a whole different story.

[Marchegiano]

Marciano was not a bone breaker first off. Secondly there is a reason why down through the decades that Johnson is typically rated over Marciano. Johnson was very comfortable fighting Marcianos style of opponent. A mover such as Ali or Holmes would have much more difficulty with Rocky as he would get inside and neither man had the skills to thwart that attack. Johnson however is a whole different story.

According to Bill Libby he is and according to you historian accounts for **** are like the word of god.

So, you just lose that one. Yes he is. I've proven that using your logic. You never once read me mention it before because I don't normally use historian work like it's the bible, but, since you do, suck on that logic.

On that note, all you're telling me I need to do if find more lists than you find? You don't think I can find 10 publications with Marciano in top five without Johnson?

Tell me now how chronology stacks that way it's not an issue after I find more lists.



Yes, I hear all about, pretty much every historian says the way they rank is based on pretend h2h. That's ****ing ****** and you are better at arguing than that bud.

[Blue54]

Johnson prime was in 1910 boxing had evolved so much since the days of Marciano then. Johnson dirty boxing style was not allowed in Rockys era fighting in clinch standing over opponent when down. I got Rocky ko he is to close to modern vs Prehistoric Johnson but no dis credit to Johnson he still one and the greatest of his era.

[billeau2]

Not a question of believing. It’s a question of knowing what you are talking about. Experts felt Johnson was among the very best if not the best. Experts never rated either Walcott or Charles at Johnson level.

Johnson had the ability and style to nullify what Marciano brought to the table. Walcott and Charles although excellent fighters lacked the inside game that distinguished Johnson. That inside game would make for a long night for Rocky.

I rated both fighters in my top ten.

When you do not source which post you are responding to it makes it hard to know what you are responding too. If you are responding to my post, you see things black and white. My comment has to do with what Marciano was able to accomplish considering what he came to the table with.

There is also more to "knowing what you are talking about" than being a parrot for those so called experts. Some of us have bigger minds, and don't assume that because of lists, a highly subjective endevour, certain fighters cannot be revisited. There was a time in history when to question Aristotle scientifically was dangerous because of people who could not tolerate dissent...

Finally, you are ignorant of the context quoted. Marchgiana does research, he did some very detailed work on Greek fighters who were champions.

You seem a bit desperate to be "right" regarding a conclusion that cannot be verified and want to browbeat others into some type of intellectual submission based on the experts... Ain't gonna work here bub. I happen to be a big Johnson fan, for most of the same reasons you are. I also happen to recognize that there are singular aspects to Marciano's game that make this, potentially a relatively hard fight to analyze.

[them_apples]

Johnson was fighting 20 rounders with open palm 6 oz gloves, they fought differently back then so its not fair. if its 1950 Rocky probably floors him, if its 1910, Johnson Grabs and holds, manipulates Rockys balance and wins via decision or late ko.

Boxing wasn't "new" in Johnsons era though. The TV era was. before the marquee of the queensbury you had the London ring rules etc etc. Boxing is old as hell

[HOUDINI563]

No one is desperate.

I’ve been watching films of Johnson and Marciano since 1972 in detail.

Never stated no one rates Marciano over Johnson. Predominantly via the historical record experts rate Johnson very highly. Marciano is typically rated below Johnson.

Johnson skill set was designed to nullify swarmers. Very high level skill set. He would be favored over most any swarmer down through the years.

Again suggest you know what you are talking about. No need to get so upset because someone states the historical record and favors a top 5 historical ATG over someone less than that especially with the skill set so heavily favoring one fighter.

[Dr. Z]

Guess who is ranked #8 on this list.

The reply was not Charles not being ranked ranked. Clearly he is. Not who's 8th.

[Dr. Z]

To all the Johnson experts can you tell me who his best three wins are?

A poll comes up with Little Tommy Burns, Ed Martin who was Ko'd early six times, and very crude and teenaged Sam McVey.

And yet suddenly he beats Rocky Marciano based on this? It's a tad silly as Walcott, Charles and Moore were far better than the best Johnson beat.