jack johnson vs rocky marciano

[Hawkins]

Some of these lists are kind of farfetched. LOL Gotta respect them tho' just for the fact of who authored them.

[hhascup]

Here's some others on a pound for pound basis:

Max Kellerman:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Ezzard Charles
10a. Jimmy Wilde


Tony Atlas:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Benny Leonard
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Mickey Walker
8. Roberto Duran
9. Gene Tunney
10. Carlos Monzon
10a. Joe Louis

Ring Magazine's list of the 80 Best Fighters of the Last 80 Years

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We should note the dates, i think this is what relegates a Benny Leonard and Greb back a little from where many would have them.

I particularly like their thinking outside the box. Many modern fighters seem to be a bit descriminated against at times. Not here. We have a SRL and a Pernell Whitaker in the top 10, which IMO shows the lists ability to move with the times and not live exclusively in the days of yore. The placings of a Ross or Williams also show a recognition of the slightly underrated. A Burley above a Micheal Spinks shows the list has not descriminated against a ducked contender. They also have two Heavyweights in the top 10.

All in all i have seen far worse lists than this one.

2002

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio César Chávez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilan
27. Larry Holmes
28. Mickey Walker
29. Ruben Olivares
30. Gene Tunney
31. **** Tiger
32. Fighting Harada
33. Emile Griffith
34. Tony Canzoneri
35. Aaron Pryor
36. Pascual Perez
37. Miguel Canto
38. Manuel Ortiz
39. Charley Burley
40. Carmen Basilio
41. Michael Spinks
42. Joe Frazier
43. Khaosai Galaxy
44. Roy Jones, Jr.
45. Tiger Flowers
46. Panama Al Brown
47. Kid Chocolate
48. Joe Brown
49. Tommy Loughran
50. Bernard Hopkins
51. Felix Trinidad
52. Jake LaMotta
53. Lennox Lewis
54. Wilfredo Gómez
55. Bob Foster
56. Jose Napoles
57. Billy Conn
58. Jimmy McLarnin
59. Pancho Villa
60. Carlos Ortiz
61. Bob Montgomery
62. Freddie Miller
63. Benny Lynch
64. Beau Jack
65. Azumah Nelson
66. Eusebio Pedroza
67. Thomas Hearns
68. Wilfred Benitez
69. Antonio Cervantes
70. Ricardo Lopez
71. Sonny Liston
72. Mike Tyson
73. Vicente Saldivar
74. Gene Fullmer
75. Oscar de la Hoya
76. Carlos Zarate
77. Marcel Cerdan
78. Flash Elorde
79. Mike McCallum
80. Harold Johnson

[them_apples]

I have done a lot of research and I also went through old newspapers for years and when Dempsey became Champion, boxing people would say, Dempsey is good but he is no Jack Johnson. When Louis was the Champion they said the same thing, Louis is the best we have now but he would look like an Amateur if he ever fought guys like Johnson or Dempsey. I heard the same thing when Ali was the Champion.

thats the case with a lot of newer fighter's to, but what can you do.

In all honesty though, Joe Louis was clearly a batter boxer than Johnson, Johnson was innovative for his time but he was still far from being the sharpest tool in the shed.

The same goes for Ali, he was clearly a better boxer than Louis, etc it keeps going and going..I can name guys I think were better than Ali, but I won't as to not stir up trouble.

[AntonTheMeh]

robinson
ray leonard
armstrong
pep
roberto duran
sam langford
whitaker
ali
tunney
jones jr

my list changes all the time,but i think the highlighted ones shouldn't be moved down.

[QueensburyRules]

thats the case with a lot of newer fighter's to, but what can you do.

In all honesty though, Joe Louis was clearly a batter boxer than Johnson, Johnson was innovative for his time but he was still far from being the sharpest tool in the shed.

The same goes for Ali, he was clearly a better boxer than Louis, etc it keeps going and going..I can name guys I think were better than Ali, but I won't as to not stir up trouble.

- -What, Joe with more KOs and fights than Ali was never punch drunk taking the physical abuse that Ali did.

Results matter!

[cfang]

Johnson is used to taking on shorter guys that want to work inside. Hed most likely stop rocky. Johnson an incredible fighter.

[HOUDINI563]

Prime Johnson wins. He was an expert nullifying Marciano type fighters. In close Rocky would be controlled by Johnson quite easily as he raked Rocky with left and right uppercuts. At distance Marciano is peppered with jabs.

Marciano gives most all heavyweight champions hell. Not Johnson. 15 round decision with Johnson winning most rounds.

[billeau2]

Marciano. The guy rocky was based on in many ways. How do you try to predict a fight against a fighter most of us, if we saw him, with no knowldege of his actual record, would think would lose to most? No reach, no footwork, no finesse... This guy can belt and is persistent... How many guys riding the BMT back then to Brooklyn fit a similar description? Like every strevedore in Red Hook.

Its hard to count Marciano out. On paper it would seem Johnson is superior for all the reasons stated in this thread. But like Moore, who, with good Ko power, even relative to the heavy weights, could Johnson be caught not being able to make enough of a dent in the Rock?

Hard fight to predict. Johnson is going to have to hit with real force and many of his orthdox skills will not be useful against the unorthodox Marciano. Marciano does not cut the ring, he just comes forward... marciano does not throw straight professional punches that can be parried on the gloves, he throws loopers that will drive a nail into a tree. And can Johnson control Marciano in the grapple? If anyone could it would be JJ.

[HOUDINI563]

Johnson would dominate inside. This was where all Rockys opponents failed or tried their best not to compete inside by moving. Johnson would step inside with Marciano within 30 seconds of the opening bell and control the fight all night from this position.

[cfang]

Johnson would dominate inside. This was where all Rockys opponents failed or tried their best not to compete inside by moving. Johnson would step inside with Marciano within 30 seconds of the opening bell and control the fight all night from this position.

This is how i see it