Muhammad Ali & The Nation Of Islam

[The Old LefHook]

Those mossbacks were the black KKK.

[Dr. Z]

The young Ali was smitten by the Nation of Islam, an anti American group that was racists and wanted 20% of the USA's land for themselves.

Ali himself was feed some of his most famous lines by them. In fact he never legally changed his name to Muhammad Ali.

Thankfully Ali converted to more moderate branch of Islam.

[uncle ben]

In the 1960's, the American landscape was still not conducive to African-Americans. Sure, they were afford more than they were at anytime but lets face it African-Americans were still viewed as second class citizens.

The Civil Rights movement was in full swing and changes were being made but I think one of the biggest strides for the Civil Rights movement in regards to empowering the rights of those afflicted was Muhammad Ali's affiliation with the Nation.

Ali truly bought into what they were preaching with all of his heart. The ideal that the black man was every bit entitled to what the white man strived to achieve. That in order for changes to be made they would have to do it themselves and that no matter what, the Establishment was still white.

While Ali viewed his affiliation as a heart felt thing on his part, I think Herbert and Elijah Muhammad just used him. From Herbet basically stealing money from him and Elijah's endless promotion of Ali as a Nation Of Islam member, it was clear their motives were less authentic and more of a parasitic relationship.

Anyways, I'm veering away from my original intent. My question is this - since Ali took his stance and was a very visible proponent of equal rights do you think alot of black athletes secretly felt the same but were in fear of rocking the boat against the Establishment?

By that I mean, do you think guys like Floyd Patterson really admired Ali and his stance but publicly spoke out against him because it was perceived as what was supposed to be done in the eyes of those in charge? Lets be realistic..alot of these black athletes had reached a stature they hadn't thought possible. Is it out of the realm of possibility that they actually supported Ali's stance but were fearful of supporting it?

The NOI is a hate organization. Lets say that Tyson Fury or Usyk belonged to a white Christian organization that taught that black people and ***s are devils and that black people and ***s were created in a laboratory by a white man who was a mad scientist? Or that blacks and ***s were cursed or whatever. And let's say that he genuinely, down in his heart believed that whites had legitimate grievances? What would be the response? What if he denigrated any white man who disagreed with him as not being a "real white man" or a "*** in white skin"? What if Usyk or Fury fought an overmatched white opponent who disagreed with his religious and political views and whilst pummeling them called them "black American" or "*** lover" (Ali called Floyd Patterson "white American" while he was in the ring pummeling him).

No one would say that Fury or Usyk has "freedom of religion" or "freedom of speech". There would be demands to strip him of all his titles, ban him from the sport of boxing and "cancel" him. Essentially make him an unperson. No one would be interested in "his side of the story".

Now, imagine, if members of that white Christian organization was at any time in it's history, hunted down and committed unprovoked violence against random black people. Even if Usyk or Fury was never themselves involved in any violence against black people or ***s, they still would get flack for being a member of a group who's teachings could rile it's members up to commit violence against other racial groups.

Look up the Zebra Murders that happened in San Francisco in the 70s. Members of the Nation of Islam went out and killed or attempted to kill random white people. Most were shot, but one white couple was stabbed. The wife was sexually assaulted before she was killed but the husband survived but was left for dead. One of the shooting survivors, Art Agnos, later became the Mayor of San Francisco.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

I want to make this clear, Muhammad Ali had nothing to do with the Zebra Murders.

But my point is, he was once a member of a group who's teachings riled certain members up to the point of murderous violence against another racial group. This would never fly if Fury or Usyk or another white fighter was at any time a member of such a group.

[soul_survivor]

Always felt that Ali had some fear about the NOI, certain things confirm as much.

Really? Could you provide some sources for this?

The NOI is a hate organization. Lets say that Tyson Fury or Usyk belonged to a white Christian organization that taught that black people and ***s are devils and that black people and ***s were created in a laboratory by a white man who was a mad scientist? Or that blacks and ***s were cursed or whatever. And let's say that he genuinely, down in his heart believed that whites had legitimate grievances? What would be the response? What if he denigrated any white man who disagreed with him as not being a "real white man" or a "*** in white skin"? What if Usyk or Fury fought an overmatched white opponent who disagreed with his religious and political views and whilst pummeling them called them "black American" or "*** lover" (Ali called Floyd Patterson "white American" while he was in the ring pummeling him).

No one would say that Fury or Usyk has "freedom of religion" or "freedom of speech". There would be demands to strip him of all his titles, ban him from the sport of boxing and "cancel" him. Essentially make him an unperson. No one would be interested in "his side of the story".

Now, imagine, if members of that white Christian organization was at any time in it's history, hunted down and committed unprovoked violence against random black people. Even if Usyk or Fury was never themselves involved in any violence against black people or ***s, they still would get flack for being a member of a group who's teachings could rile it's members up to commit violence against other racial groups.

Look up the Zebra Murders that happened in San Francisco in the 70s. Members of the Nation of Islam went out and killed or attempted to kill random white people. Most were shot, but one white couple was stabbed. The wife was sexually assaulted before she was killed but the husband survived but was left for dead. One of the shooting survivors, Art Agnos, later became the Mayor of San Francisco.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra_murders

I want to make this clear, Muhammad Ali had nothing to do with the Zebra Murders.

But my point is, he was once a member of a group who's teachings riled certain members up to the point of murderous violence against another racial group. This would never fly if Fury or Usyk or another white fighter was at any time a member of such a group.

The NOI formed on the basis that black people should have black businesses, black neighbourhoods and maybe, if they were able to, an independent black state they could call home.

Currently ***s have the exact same community in parts of the western world, and their own nation state. You're asking the question, what if ***s or whites etc did this or that...they have already done it. Have you been living on Mars? Heck, less than a decade ago all western nations supported the creation of Christian South Sudan after supposed oppression by a ****** majority. You really need to get your facts straight here.

Then, you have to understand what someone like Ali would have gone through, raised to believe he was an animal, unable to use the same public toilets, restaurants, in some cases entire neighbourhoods, a generation removed from slavery, 2 generations removed from ****...heck if Tyson Fury went through the same thing under a black majority and then joined an organisation which wanted to create a separate white state, most people with common sense would understand why.

And what's all this zebra murder nonsense? Is it proven? Did these guys do it because the NOI commanded? By the 1970s the NOI had in fact splintered, part of it had become Sunni ****** led by the only good son of Elijah I know of...sadly that was overtaken by Louis Farrakhan who is now a scientologist.

Stop conflating issues and trying to make excuses a=or victims out of white people...heck, stop using hypotheticals and actually study history.

[QueensburyRules]

Really? Could you provide some sources for this?



The NOI formed on the basis that black people should have black businesses, black neighbourhoods and maybe, if they were able to, an independent black state they could call home.

Currently ***s have the exact same community in parts of the western world, and their own nation state. You're asking the question, what if ***s or whites etc did this or that...they have already done it. Have you been living on Mars? Heck, less than a decade ago all western nations supported the creation of Christian South Sudan after supposed oppression by a ****** majority. You really need to get your facts straight here.

Then, you have to understand what someone like Ali would have gone through, raised to believe he was an animal, unable to use the same public toilets, restaurants, in some cases entire neighbourhoods, a generation removed from slavery, 2 generations removed from ****...heck if Tyson Fury went through the same thing under a black majority and then joined an organisation which wanted to create a separate white state, most people with common sense would understand why.

And what's all this zebra murder nonsense? Is it proven? Did these guys do it because the NOI commanded? By the 1970s the NOI had in fact splintered, part of it had become Sunni ****** led by the only good son of Elijah I know of...sadly that was overtaken by Louis Farrakhan who is now a scientologist.

Stop conflating issues and trying to make excuses a=or victims out of white people...heck, stop using hypotheticals and actually study history.

- -US blacks always had their own business. Civil rights was a needed ideal, but net result is many businessmen and other successful blacks moved into what they perceived as more upscale neighborhoods that caused an ancillary problem of a phenomenon known as block busting where white owners saw their home equity disappear in lower property values that left residents financially broke and having by financial necessity to flee no matter their civil rights stances.

And Ali grew up privleged with two loving parents in a working class neighborhood like most Americans save it was segregated and young Ali wanted to keep black society that way.

[ShoulderRoll]

Some of the black empowerment ideas of the NOI were a positive thing.

But there is a lot of toxic stuff that they believed in as well.

[The Old LefHook]

They are mossbacks. Of course they are no good.

[Willie Pep 229]

Really? Could you provide some sources for this?

Proof? No!

The film "Ali" wanted to convey that message; I thought it interesting they (the filmmakers) would choose to make that statement.

[soul_survivor]

- -US blacks always had their own business. Civil rights was a needed ideal, but net result is many businessmen and other successful blacks moved into what they perceived as more upscale neighborhoods that caused an ancillary problem of a phenomenon known as block busting where white owners saw their home equity disappear in lower property values that left residents financially broke and having by financial necessity to flee no matter their civil rights stances.

And Ali grew up privleged with two loving parents in a working class neighborhood like most Americans save it was segregated and young Ali wanted to keep black society that way.

You speak utter nonsense. Ali did not grow up "privileged"...yes he was better off than many other black people but that does not equate to privileged. Unless you think it is a privilege to have 3 square meals a day.

The rest of your post is trash so I won't go into it.....plus you have interrupted my post in response to another poster. Are you an alt?

[soul_survivor]

Proof? No!

The film "Ali" wanted to convey that message; I thought it interesting they (the filmmakers) would choose to make that statement.

Are you the guy I quoted?

And the Ali film doesn't insinuate any of that.