Muhammad Ali & The Nation Of Islam

[Willie Pep 229]

Are you the guy I quoted?

And the Ali film doesn't insinuate any of that.

Of course it does, it is the scene where Ali is talking to Malcolm X in a hotel parking lot. As X leaves Ali looks up at a hotel window and a man inside makes a dramatic move with the curtains to make sure Ali knows he is being watched, Ali peers for a moment, at the window, with knowing and great apprehension.

A scene later Ali, when he hears the news on the radio, pulls off the road and cries, but doesn't look surprised/shocked.

I wasn't suggesting it's true but only that it has become part of the conventional wisdom regarding Ali's relationship with the NOI, so much so that they put it in the film.

Are there rules about who can speak out on a thread? Private conversations would work best with PMs, no?

[slicksouthpaw16]

I have the book "blood brothers" that talks about the relationship between Ali and Malcom X during that time period. I've had it for about 2 years and I'm not sure why I haven't started it, but I'll definitely be starting it within the next day or so. I'm sure it gets into a lot of details about the NOI etc.

[Dynamite76]

Really? Could you provide some sources for this?



The NOI formed on the basis that black people should have black businesses, black neighbourhoods and maybe, if they were able to, an independent black state they could call home.

Currently ***s have the exact same community in parts of the western world, and their own nation state. You're asking the question, what if ***s or whites etc did this or that...they have already done it. Have you been living on Mars? Heck, less than a decade ago all western nations supported the creation of Christian South Sudan after supposed oppression by a ****** majority. You really need to get your facts straight here.

Then, you have to understand what someone like Ali would have gone through, raised to believe he was an animal, unable to use the same public toilets, restaurants, in some cases entire neighbourhoods, a generation removed from slavery, 2 generations removed from ****...heck if Tyson Fury went through the same thing under a black majority and then joined an organisation which wanted to create a separate white state, most people with common sense would understand why.

And what's all this zebra murder nonsense? Is it proven? Did these guys do it because the NOI commanded? By the 1970s the NOI had in fact splintered, part of it had become Sunni ****** led by the only good son of Elijah I know of...sadly that was overtaken by Louis Farrakhan who is now a scientologist.

Stop conflating issues and trying to make excuses a=or victims out of white people...heck, stop using hypotheticals and actually study history.

No, but it easy to figure out, given the circumstances of that era and his actions in response to them.

[QueensburyRules]

You speak utter nonsense. Ali did not grow up "privileged"...yes he was better off than many other black people but that does not equate to privileged. Unless you think it is a privilege to have 3 square meals a day.

The rest of your post is trash so I won't go into it.....plus you have interrupted my post in response to another poster. Are you an alt?

- -U don't have to worry about any alt being more doltish than U.

He was privileged compared to all families in poverty and a damned sight more privleged than Joe who he tarred with the worst insults possible that led to Joes kids having to fight the bullies impugning he and Joe at school.

What grade U kicked outta school? 2nd?

[soul_survivor]

Of course it does, it is the scene where Ali is talking to Malcolm X in a hotel parking lot. As X leaves Ali looks up at a hotel window and a man inside makes a dramatic move with the curtains to make sure Ali knows he is being watched, Ali peers for a moment, at the window, with knowing and great apprehension.

A scene later Ali, when he hears the news on the radio, pulls off the road and cries, but doesn't look surprised/shocked.

I wasn't suggesting it's true but only that it has become part of the conventional wisdom regarding Ali's relationship with the NOI, so much so that they put it in the film.

Are there rules about who can speak out on a thread? Private conversations would work best with PMs, no?

That scene always seemed to be more about FBI/CIA trailing Ali and X. I'm not sure it was ever anything to do with the NOI, in particular for Mann and his eye on the movie. In fact he has spoken in great length about wanting to present this edge of Ali being watched by the American establishment.

I agree, this has become "conventional" views of certain types of people, mainly white and some black ******** who really dislike the religion of Islam (not that the NOI represents that but it irks them still).

They also try and push this ridiculous logic of Ali not being an independent, revolutionary thinker but a stooge of the NOI, in particular when it comes to issues on race, religion and war. Yet it has been made abundantly clear that Elijah, the leader of the NOI, did not want to take on the US government. It's why he silenced Malcolm X on his comments regarding JFK and also pushed Ali to not create controversy around Vietnam.

Ali was not some stooge or afraid of the NOI in any way. In fact, if he had never been sincere he would have taken several deals proposed by the US, one of which was to simply take part in exhibition match ups. He refused and lost so much money, he ha to borrow 10k from Frazier (also seen in the movie).

Anyway, did you say you wanted to pm?

[Dr. Z]

Some of the black empowerment ideas of the NOI were a positive thing.

But there is a lot of toxic stuff that they believed in as well.

Thomas Hauser's book on Ali is good. As is the facing Ali book by Stephen Brunt.

Ali was brainwashed, and said what they wanted him to say, believing there was a great wheel in the sky with black pilots ready to emerge and bomb the enemies of the nation of Islam. Crazy stuff.

[GhostofDempsey]

“I go to black ****** meeting and what do I see? I see there’s no smoking, no drinking and their women wear dresses to the floor. In the jungle, lions are with lions, and tigers are with tigers, and redbirds stay with Redbirds and bluebirds with bluebirds. That’s human nature too, to be with your own kind” ~ Quote from Ali when asked by the press about his conversion to Islam.

“The white man is the devil. We do believe that. We know it!” ~ Ali from 1974 interview.

[boxinglife8]

I believe Ali had only just learned about islam because in Islam discrimination is not condemned in any shape or form.Even Malcom X to an extent was still learning about islam

[boxinglife8]

Elihaj Mohamed was a misleading man, in 2004 ali admitted to have been wrong,But then again we are taught never bring up anything bad up about a dead person so may all of them rest in peace

[The Old LefHook]

The mossbacks are swine.