Muhammad Ali & The Nation Of Islam

[Hawkins]

In the 1960's, the American landscape was still not conducive to African-Americans. Sure, they were afford more than they were at anytime but lets face it African-Americans were still viewed as second class citizens.

The Civil Rights movement was in full swing and changes were being made but I think one of the biggest strides for the Civil Rights movement in regards to empowering the rights of those afflicted was Muhammad Ali's affiliation with the Nation.

Ali truly bought into what they were preaching with all of his heart. The ideal that the black man was every bit entitled to what the white man strived to achieve. That in order for changes to be made they would have to do it themselves and that no matter what, the Establishment was still white.

While Ali viewed his affiliation as a heart felt thing on his part, I think Herbert and Elijah Muhammad just used him. From Herbet basically stealing money from him and Elijah's endless promotion of Ali as a Nation Of Islam member, it was clear their motives were less authentic and more of a parasitic relationship.

Anyways, I'm veering away from my original intent. My question is this - since Ali took his stance and was a very visible proponent of equal rights do you think alot of black athletes secretly felt the same but were in fear of rocking the boat against the Establishment?

By that I mean, do you think guys like Floyd Patterson really admired Ali and his stance but publicly spoke out against him because it was perceived as what was supposed to be done in the eyes of those in charge? Lets be realistic..alot of these black athletes had reached a stature they hadn't thought possible. Is it out of the realm of possibility that they actually supported Ali's stance but were fearful of supporting it?

[LondonRingRules]

Floyd Patterson really admired Ali and his stance but publicly spoke out against him because it was perceived as what was supposed to be done in the eyes of those in charge? Lets be realistic..alot of these black athletes had reached a stature they hadn't thought possible. Is it out of the realm of possibility that they actually supported Ali's stance but were fearful of supporting it?

** Not a black athlete, but I know Floyd was a devout Roman Catholic, and the NOI represented absolute evil to Floyd who probably could have tolerated mainstream Islam.

Plenty of black militants back then, athletes and regular Joes. Most black Americans were Christian and aligned with Martin Luther King however, and his vision was the big engine of equal rights, integretion and respect. NOI were black separatists who wanted a parcel of land for their own country where they would establish their own rights and respect.

Floyd and King admired much about Ali, he was a magnetic and handsome young man, but could only go so far before denouncing some of the more radical NOI platforms. In turn Ali took Kings call for equality to heart and probably had much admiration for him, though I don't think they were close.

Ali abandoned his friend Malcolm X during his banishment from NOI and subsequent assassination and has some regrets about this period. Obviously he converted to a mainstream Sunni sect of Islam after retiring and is as preachy as he was with the NOI.

With his dramatic victory over Foreman, Ali became more widely accepted, and is probably the best known person in the world thanks to satellite TV coming on line during his comeback.

[Hawkins]

** Not a black athlete, but I know Floyd was a devout Roman Catholic, and the NOI represented absolute evil to Floyd who probably could have tolerated mainstream Islam.

Plenty of black militants back then, athletes and regular Joes. Most black Americans were Christian and aligned with Martin Luther King however, and his vision was the big engine of equal rights, integretion and respect. NOI were black separatists who wanted a parcel of land for their own country where they would establish their own rights and respect.

Floyd and King admired much about Ali, he was a magnetic and handsome young man, but could only go so far before denouncing some of the more radical NOI platforms. In turn Ali took Kings call for equality to heart and probably had much admiration for him, though I don't think they were close.

Ali abandoned his friend Malcolm X during his banishment from NOI and subsequent assassination and has some regrets about this period. Obviously he converted to a mainstream Sunni sect of Islam after retiring and is as preachy as he was with the NOI.

With his dramatic victory over Foreman, Ali became more widely accepted, and is probably the best known person in the world thanks to satellite TV coming on line during his comeback.

Regarding Floyd I know at one point he moved his family into a white suburb and ultimately left because of the bad treatment. When later asked he said, "I tried to integrate but it just didn't work."

From that standpoint I could imagine Floyd, and other christian african-americans, admiring the total defiance of the establishment.

But I think, after a little maturity Ali had the same epiphany Malcolm X did and thats that the color of the skin isn't the issue it's the person underneath that should be observed.

[hayZ]

he converted to sunni islam in 1975 NOT after his retirement

[Hawkins]

The more I learn about the NOI its easy to see what a bunch of leeches they were. Anyone that was genuinely motivated by the religion they were banished (Malcolm X and later Muhammad Ali).

When Ali refused induction he was exiled. I have no doubt it was because his earning potential was gone as was his 'good name' to the Nation. It looks to me like standing up for your religious rights would be a good thing in the name of said religion, unless of course you are just it in for the money.

Makes me sick when I read about these guys.

[The Noose]

Good read.

I think a lot of black athletes must have sympathised with what Ali was doing.

[LondonRingRules]

he converted to sunni islam in 1975 NOT after his retirement

** Indeed, apparently with no fanfare, so I stand corrected. I remember his Playboy interview at the end of 1974 when you was still spouting the same NOI nonsense and he still treated Frazier like an Uncle Tom and gorilla in '75.

Also, Hawk, the NOI never abandoned Ali, though I believe there was a rough patch with Ali because of his publicized divorces and basic typical NOI infighting. Herbert Muhammad remained his manager up to the Holmes fight as I recall. Not sure if Herbert ever converted, but famously his brother, WD did, eventually bringing in Ali.

The NOI did convert a lot of street thugs and ex cons into a criminal and drug free life, and they cleaned up a lot of innercity neighborhoods, so they did have some good influences.

[Hawkins]

Also, Hawk, the NOI never abandoned Ali, though I believe there was a rough patch with Ali because of his publicized divorces and basic typical NOI infighting. Herbert Muhammad remained his manager up to the Holmes fight as I recall. Not sure if Herbert ever converted, but famously his brother, WD did, eventually bringing in Ali.

The NOI did convert a lot of street thugs and ex cons into a criminal and drug free life, and they cleaned up a lot of innercity neighborhoods, so they did have some good influences.

Well I was thinking that after his exile, when he was in limbo, it came out he was flat broke and he said as much and Elijah Muhammad excommunicated him from the Nation.

I also thought that it wasn't until after the Quarry fight that Herbert Muhammad came back around. Maybe I'm wrong or confused.

[QueensburyRules]

Regarding Floyd I know at one point he moved his family into a white suburb and ultimately left because of the bad treatment. When later asked he said, "I tried to integrate but it just didn't work."

From that standpoint I could imagine Floyd, and other christian african-americans, admiring the total defiance of the establishment.

But I think, after a little maturity Ali had the same epiphany Malcolm X did and thats that the color of the skin isn't the issue it's the person underneath that should be observed.

- -Yeah, great respect for Malcolm as an intellect in development.

Underrated bravery leaving NOI that saw his house burned down and assassinated. It wasn't until Elijah passed that Ali felt safe enough to declare mainstream Islam.

Ran into a few NOI in a late nite New Jersey truck stop. We had no qualms about sharing our urinal space before returning to the road, so I tend to think it's their leaders stirring the pot as happens in congress. Scratch em, and most all folks just want to go about their business in a respectful manner.

[Dynamite76]

Always felt that Ali had some fear about the NOI, certain things confirm as much.