Ray Leonard overrated

[wmute]

Oh wah wah I've spent 20 years listening to Hagler nuthuggers ***** about that. Give it a rest for God's sake! Hagler did NOTHING in the first fight so why anybody thinks he would do anything in a second fight when he would be at least a year older is beyond me. Two old dudes mixing it up a second time: Why would anyone want to watch? Only the biggest Hagler KoolAid drinkers would tune in.

Poet

More bull**** from fart682006.

Hagler gave away many things in negotiationing the fight. Why on earth he would do the same mistake when older is clear only in your simple mind.

At the end of the fight Hagler was not hurt or particularly tired, Leonard was barely able to walk. Yet, according to you one year later Hagler could do nothing better.

Most important, Hagler threw away rounds by chasing Leonard from an orthodox stance trying to beat him at his own game. Since when do you need to be younger to have a better fight plan?

Finally, "Two old dudes mixing it up a second time: Why would anyone want to watch?" Considering there was plenty of people watching Leonard-Duran 3 and Leonard-Hearns 2, taking place 2 years later and Hagler-Leonard was a very close fights among two superstars, I think the answer is clear to everyone: "A lot of people".

This post shows again your inability of thinking logically, and your ridiculous position on many facts.

[StarshipTrooper]

Someone told me wmoron was talking smack about me again. Not a shock, he's determined to spread his ignorance far and wide. Apparently the little nimrod hasn't figured out yet he's on ignore: That's i.g.n.o.r.e; you see, I realize the idiotic little dip**** is practically illiterate and needs help with the BIG words. Another concept he hasn't yet comprehended is slagging off on people is NOT appropriate on the boxing threads and needs to be taken over to the Thunderdome. That's the forum at the bottom of the main forum screen. You don't have to look hard. Before I ignored his stuck up, elitest ass wmoron claimed he never heard of the Thunderdome. He's been on this site for multiple years and he's never heard of the Thunderdome? Excuse me? Are you really admitting you're THAT ******? Suffice it to say I'm done playing games with this brainless worm. Either he takes these slagging posts of his over to the Thunderdome where he can be dealt with properly or I WILL start reporting such posts as inappropriate for the boxing forums until he gets banned Have a nice day!

Poet

[wmute]

Someone told me wmoron was talking smack about me again. Not a shock, he's determined to spread his ignorance far and wide. Apparently the little nimrod hasn't figured out yet he's on ignore: That's i.g.n.o.r.e; you see, I realize the idiotic little dip**** is practically illiterate and needs help with the BIG words. Another concept he hasn't yet comprehended is slagging off on people is NOT appropriate on the boxing threads and needs to be taken over to the Thunderdome. That's the forum at the bottom of the main forum screen. You don't have to look hard. Before I ignored his stuck up, elitest ass wmoron claimed he never heard of the Thunderdome. He's been on this site for multiple years and he's never heard of the Thunderdome? Excuse me? Are you really admitting you're THAT ******? Suffice it to say I'm done playing games with this brainless worm. Either he takes these slagging posts of his over to the Thunderdome where he can be dealt with properly or I WILL start reporting such posts as inappropriate for the boxing forums until he gets banned Have a nice day!

Poet

"someone" like the "view post" button?

You still cannot come up with answers, you still post contradicttory pieces of "thought". Unfortunately (for you), I like truth and logic to prevail so I will keep on pointing out bull**** when I see it, even if I am on your ignore list. Reason being, Boxing History is not the home for illogical biased posts like yours. Report me as much as you like, I doubt it's going to do you any good (beyond that warm fuzzy feeling that you seem to need)

[StarshipTrooper]

wmute poll

wmute has his own poll now!

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=135469

Poet

[wmute]

wmute has his own poll now!

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=135469

Poet

and so...?

I have my own poll, and you still post logically inconsistent bull****... life still sucks, eh?

[ForemanCrossArm]

Let's just put it like this. As far as fighting goes I'd put Hearns and Hagler both over SRL and put him about even with Duran. As far as boxing goes I'd put him over Hearns, under Duran, and about even with Hagler. Fair?

[Krucial]

i'd say the list of the fab 4 is...
1.ray leonard
2.marvin hagler
3.tommy hearns
4.roberto duran

best boxers...
1 SSR
2 Hearns
3 Duran
4 MMH

[WelshDevilRob]

Sugar Ray Leonard was a fantastic fighter and with-out doubt an all time Great. Superb technical boxer. Sugar Ray really did have everything.

[wpink1]

Hmmm is Ray Leonard over rated. thomas hearns bettr than him...Hagler beats ray in his prime. It appears that some on here dont know anything about boxing and are just hating on Ray.

Ray willingly went toe to toe with Duran and lost by 4 points between all the 3 cards and the 1st round a round in which Duran did not land 1 head punch the judges gave duran that round. Had Leonard been given that round,we have draw. Get your facts right.

Duran leonard two.....Leonard frusterated Duran, humiliated duran. and was starting to land good solid shots on duran and duran quit...

Hearns.. In every single meaning ful exchange in thier 1st fight, leonard hurt hearns, and backed him up..rounds 6 , 7 13, 14..then stopped him. Hearns had a extremly long reach advantage over leonard, and heigh, had great speed, power and a great trainer. He had never been backed up or hurt before that fight. Also Hearns was in the olympics a master boxer, who did not learn power punching til he became a professional. Get your facts str8. I took Ray to dig into a area most fighers cant dream of, to beat hearns. No other welterweight that night except for a prime Robinson could have beaten him. Oh yes having a chin is part of the package....so how can we say hearns is better than ray. when in their peak leonard stopped him and beat the other man that stopped him in his peak...Wow.

Hagler...what great fighter who was a solid middleweight had hagler ever beaten. Styles makes fights and if you want to go toe to toe with him he is a beast. However as Duran exposed in 83 (during Hagler prime) when you box him, and/or make him lead he become somewhat ordinary. Remember this was in 83 versus duran who was at the end of his prime and 42 pounds past his starting boxing weight.hmmmm. Duran was no where near the boxer Ray was, speed, boxing ability whatever and he fought a very very close battle with Hagler. Lets put a prime Leonard in that fight in 1983...OMG, you think hagler had issues boxing duran...What do you think would have happened had that been Ray. Finally we continoulsy hear Ray fought a past his prime hagler. What shape do you all think Ray was in, not having but 1 fight in 5 years and never having fought at Middle before. He was sooo slow that night compared to him in 1981, and was no where near the shape he was ..say when he went 15 rounds toe to toe with Duran...Hagler only won rounds in that fight, when ray came down and had to fight him with out using his foot speed, because he was winded starting round 6, getting his 2nd wind in the 10th round.

Wow this is a funny thread.

[LondonRingRules]

Hagler...what great fighter who was a solid middleweight had hagler ever beaten. Styles makes fights and if you want to go toe to toe with him he is a beast. However as Duran exposed in 83 (during Hagler prime) when you box him, and/or make him lead he become somewhat ordinary. Remember this was in 83 versus duran who was at the end of his prime and 42 pounds past his starting boxing weight.hmmmm. Duran was no where near the boxer Ray was, speed, boxing ability whatever and he fought a very very close battle with Hagler. Lets put a prime Leonard in that fight in 1983...OMG, you think hagler had issues boxing duran...What do you think would have happened had that been Ray. Finally we continoulsy hear Ray fought a past his prime hagler. What shape do you all think Ray was in, not having but 1 fight in 5 years and never having fought at Middle before. He was sooo slow that night compared to him in 1981, and was no where near the shape he was ..say when he went 15 rounds toe to toe with Duran...Hagler only won rounds in that fight, when ray came down and had to fight him with out using his foot speed, because he was winded starting round 6, getting his 2nd wind in the 10th round.

Wow this is a funny thread.

** Well, it does attract funny types making amusing claims with lines sounding like they were written by cartoon characters.

Funny that you didn't mention that Ray retired the first of a half dozen times starting in 1982-83 after a toe to toe battle against all time great Bruce Finch. He then came out of retirement in 1984 and was a bit embarrassed being knocked down and scared against all time great Kevin Howard, but pulled out a big KO punch and retired the 2nd time with just 34 fights to his record.

I guess some cartoon characters with funny lines might think Leonard could easily dismantle a Marvin in full swing of dominance over the middle division in 1983, but it appears to this grounded on earth boxing enthusiast that Leonard was busy ducking his own shadow from 82-86. Just can see how he's going to beat Marvin then, but hey, maybe he finally caught up to his shadow during this time, those were unsanctioned fights after all.

Now, being the fair type I think we have to acknowledge his health problems with a detached retina and all that. But being the fair type, I can't help but also conclude that last great fight Leonard ever fought was against Hearns in 1981, a truly great fight for him that he had to dig way deep to pull out over another great fighter.

Everything that followed is just Leonard using his golden boy clout to jerk other fighters around to accomodate his ego and health problems as he manipulated the circumstances of his chosen fighters like some Roman emperor from his throne.

One of the greatest natural talents in history, but not near the career or legacy of a Duran, just too short of a career, only 33 or so prime fights with a 7-1 title record against some great competition. A great career, but nothing next to the real Sugar Ray. Leonard was more of a media creation and marketing promotion, very similar to Oscar today, though I would rate Leonard a little higher on the fight scale than Oscar, "the only 6 division" champion in history," cough, cough!