Ray Leonard overrated

[Steak]

De La Hoya and Leonard hated? wtf? theyre two of the most loved boxers ever by the media!

you aint really getting the point though...Rays record is pretty astounding, but it isnt as impressive as it is on paper...

Hearns was clearly way ahead in the 1st fight, and could have gotten knocked down multiple times and still won the fight if he made it to the bell. If that would have happened, wouldnt Leonard be entitled to a rematch? I think so
Most the knockdown problems were from weight drain issues too, I remember he came in at 145?, which is a horrible amount of weight to lose, and it showed up in the later stages of the fight. Such a huge fight, which also happened to be considered FOTY, why not have a rematch? Leonard gets credit for the win, no doubt, but its not like he kicked Hearns' ass for 14 rounds...

Leonard lost that fight against Hagler. and Hearns at Middle, no doubt.
His tko win over Duran should hardly be considered a real tko. dont tell me theres no controversy there.
His 'tko' win over Benitez is misleading.

its not a big deal, Leonard is still a top ATG of course, but theres more than a few stories to consider when you look at his record. plus it kind of loses a lot when you take out his getting the Middleweight and Super Middleweight titles, seeing as his only real victories out of Welterweight is LaLonde and a superfat Duran.
________
OREGON MEDICAL MARIJUANA

[StarshipTrooper]

De La Hoya and Leonard hated? wtf? theyre two of the most loved boxers ever by the media!

you aint really getting the point though...Rays record is pretty astounding, but it isnt as impressive as it is on paper...

Hearns was clearly way ahead in the 1st fight, and could have gotten knocked down multiple times and still won the fight if he made it to the bell. If that would have happened, wouldnt Leonard be entitled to a rematch? I think so
Most the knockdown problems were from weight drain issues too, I remember he came in at 145?, which is a horrible amount of weight to lose, and it showed up in the later stages of the fight. Such a huge fight, which also happened to be considered FOTY, why not have a rematch? Leonard gets credit for the win, no doubt, but its not like he kicked Hearns' ass for 14 rounds...

Leonard lost that fight against Hagler. and Hearns at Middle, no doubt.
His tko win over Duran should hardly be considered a real tko. dont tell me theres no controversy there.
His 'tko' win over Benitez is misleading.

its not a big deal, Leonard is still a top ATG of course, but theres more than a few stories to consider when you look at his record. plus it kind of loses a lot when you take out his getting the Middleweight and Super Middleweight titles, seeing as his only real victories out of Welterweight is LaLonde and a superfat Duran.

You're missing the point: I'm not talking about the media. I'm talking about people like ForemansCrossArms. I don't give a rat's ass what the media thinks about ANYTHING. What was misleading about the Benitez stoppage? I wasn't aware of any controversy and I've watched that fight many times. I'm a huge Benitez fan and I consider that fight one of the greatest ever. It sounds to me like looking for excuses for Leonard's biggest wins and THAT is something that can be done with ANY fighter. Hearns would have won if he hadn't been stopped? That's like saying Tyson would have won if Douglas hadn't stopped him: Tyson was only trailing by a point on one card and a second card had it even. The Hagler fight can be debated. From my persepective Hagler didn't do diddly squat for 12 rounds and shouldn't complain about losing the fight. If you want to win DO something.

All in all this kind of debate puts me in the uncomfortable position of defending Leonard's record when I don't particularly care for Leonard. But here's the thing: I may not like Leonard but my personal feelings aside he's still an ATG and I'll give an ATG his due and defend his record even if I dislike him if he's being unfairly ripped. I destest Julio Cesar Chavez but there's no denying the man's an ATG. You should rewatch the first Leonard - Duran fight. Despite the fact that Duran was a beast that night Leonard fought a great fight. That fight was close and Leonard stood toe to toe with Duran and nearly beat Roberto at his own game. (PS. You'll have a hard time finding a bigger Duran fan in this forum than me, check my signature: Duran's photo is there, Leonard's is not.) It's one thing to be a fan, but all to often I see people here being "anti-fans": They aren't boosting fighters they like, they're tearing down fighters they dislike.

Poet

[ForemanCrossArm]

I think he was a good fighter, but he wouldn't give a re-match to Hagler. 'nuff said.

[StarshipTrooper]

I think he was a good fighter, but he wouldn't give a re-match to Hagler. 'nuff said.

Oh wah wah I've spent 20 years listening to Hagler nuthuggers ***** about that. Give it a rest for God's sake! Hagler did NOTHING in the first fight so why anybody thinks he would do anything in a second fight when he would be at least a year older is beyond me. Two old dudes mixing it up a second time: Why would anyone want to watch? Only the biggest Hagler KoolAid drinkers would tune in.

Poet

[ForemanCrossArm]

Uh.. Hagler was, what, 33.. 34.. Some fighters don't hit their prime 'till then, was Ray even 30 at the time of the first fight?

[ForemanCrossArm]

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxin...hagler-leonard

[StarshipTrooper]

And some fighters are done before they hit 30. It was eminently clear watching both fighters that they were washed up.

Poet

[Palma]

Come on, you have got to be joking calling Ray Leonard "overrated"! The man had some legendary battle's in the ring! He is by far one of the best US boxers to ever step into the ring!

Sugar Ray Leonard was the original Golden Boy!

[wmute]

leonard is way better than duran
look at the movement,quickness,speed,combos and look at durans bully fighting
if they fought 10 fights,leonard would win 9 of em
no controversy
only controversy bout their rematch was that duran quit like a ***
he was gettin made ******
leonard clowned em cuz he fought like hisself
and he beat em in both they primes
now hagler leonard was close
but i felt sugar edged it
he stole it by landing combinations to haglers 1 or 2 punches
he knows how to win
like larry merchant said 'he'd dig down n do anything to win'

did Ali get his ass wooped for 12-13 rounds and then stop em?
no
ali controlled liston until liston blinded em,but then liston got stopped
n i dont recall liston winning the rematch like hearns did(hearns got ****ed like whitaker did against chavez,not the same deal tho)

This must be why every boxing writer and historian rakns Duran ahead of Leonard, right?

You are comparing Duran and Leonard as if they were of the same size and age, which is not the case.

[Chups]

No!

....................