Prime Tyson could have been the best ever??

[Dirt E Gomez]

The mental game and desire are needed. The will to improve yourself and continue to dominate. Tyson simply didn't have it. Imagine if he had the work ethic of B-Hop or Mayweather? Maybe then he'd be an all time great. But showing up out of shape and being a lazy fighter doesn't suddenly make it acceptable to lose.

They're excuses. And excuses don't change the fact that it was still a loss.

As for Douglas.... and underachiever is the best way to describe him. His weight was always heavy, he had fights in the bag that he gave away, and even after the Tyson fight he quickly went back into his lazy ways. The fight he put on that night was beautiful. It would've been nice to see what he could do if he could've stayed motivated... just like Tyson.

[The Iron Man]

It may not make the loss acceptable but its still a reason for it. Tyson did have motivation wen he had the right trainers, which was a big thing for him and many people to get motivated. I think Kevin Rooney Said "Tyson knew more about boxing than his trainers" apart from him of course. Douglas fought a good fight, but tyson didnt. Tyson got beat! (although he was winning on the score cards) but in no way was it tyson at his best.

[Poet682006]

It may not make the loss acceptable but its still a reason for it. Tyson did have motivation wen he had the right trainers, which was a big thing for him and many people to get motivated. I think Kevin Rooney Said "Tyson knew more about boxing than his trainers" apart from him of course. Douglas fought a good fight, but tyson didnt. Tyson got beat! (although he was winning on the score cards) but in no way was it tyson at his best.

But the point is Tyson SHOULDN'T have been leading on the cards. It was like, what fight where the judges watching? That was a bad decision waiting to happen before Douglas settled things himself. That was a one-sided fight and it wasn't Tyson on the happy end of it.

Poet

[The Iron Man]

Yeh i dont agree with the decision either, but that wasnt my main point lol. The fight was fairly one sided, but as i said earlier and as Kevin Rooney has said, and many other boxing analysts, if tyson trained properly and had Kevin Rooney he would have won that fight

[Brassangel]

Instead, this is what happened:



Even with poor training, out of shape, and hungover, against a man who was ready for anything, this atrocity still took shape. Don't get me wrong, Douglas was whooping Mike to that point. I used to think, however, that Douglas was completely cognisent of his surroundings, but he was visibly wobbly, especially when he stood up. The guy in the background is counting three numbers ahead of the ring ref, and the ref is counting rediculously slow. He even pauses in between number counts to look at Mike, and then without putting his gloves together and signalling he's okay, the ref gives Douglas the go-ahead at 14-er, 9.

The whole thing is a little shady, like someone wanted Mike to lose that night. Don King perhaps? Knowing Mike's condition, he arranges the biggest upset in history, which of course would bring about a colossal rematch down the road (had Mike not gone to prison), and lots of money. He then plays it off at the presser like it was a robbery. The only guys not in on the whole deal were the two fighters.

Okay, so that last paragraph was something a hugger would say. Tyson did get whooped, but he still knocked the guy out. That's what happens sometimes when a guy has lots of power. Think of Tua vs. Rahman I, Foreman vs. Moorer, Marciano vs. anybody he was losing to, etc.

[Poet682006]

The only problem with that argument is that no travesty took place. Anyone watching that fight can see that Douglas was NOT out and was following the ref's count. He could have gotten up at any point, unlike Tyson who tried to deepthroat his mouth piece first.

Poet

[Brassangel]

Yeah, he was following the ref's count, after the ref reached 5 or 6 (which was actually 8 or 9), and then he stood up in pretty poor shape. That means he wouldn't have attempted to stand up until 8 or 9, which any sensible referee would then use to wave off the fight, granting the KO to Tyson. Douglas wasn't stable, and he didn't even signal to the ref that he was ready. The ref plainly assumes it, and Douglas gets saved by the bell. Sitting in the corner, he was able to shake the cobwebs. Mike was aware of the ref's count too during his own knockdown, which is why he was frantically seeking his mouthpiece to beat the count. The ref was lightning quick to stop it at 9 even though Mike stood up.

Again, I'm not saying Mike should have won, as he was getting beat. But he actually did win, despite the beating he was taking, and suffered from some very poor ref'ing.

[Mike Tyson77]

Instead, this is what happened:



Even with poor training, out of shape, and hungover, against a man who was ready for anything, this atrocity still took shape. Don't get me wrong, Douglas was whooping Mike to that point. I used to think, however, that Douglas was completely cognisent of his surroundings, but he was visibly wobbly, especially when he stood up. The guy in the background is counting three numbers ahead of the ring ref, and the ref is counting rediculously slow. He even pauses in between number counts to look at Mike, and then without putting his gloves together and signalling he's okay, the ref gives Douglas the go-ahead at 14-er, 9.

The whole thing is a little shady, like someone wanted Mike to lose that night. Don King perhaps? Knowing Mike's condition, he arranges the biggest upset in history, which of course would bring about a colossal rematch down the road (had Mike not gone to prison), and lots of money. He then plays it off at the presser like it was a robbery. The only guys not in on the whole deal were the two fighters.

Okay, so that last paragraph was something a hugger would say. Tyson did get whooped, but he still knocked the guy out. That's what happens sometimes when a guy has lots of power. Think of Tua vs. Rahman I, Foreman vs. Moorer, Marciano vs. anybody he was losing to, etc.

Yeah, he was following the ref's count, after the ref reached 5 or 6 (which was actually 8 or 9), and then he stood up in pretty poor shape. That means he wouldn't have attempted to stand up until 8 or 9, which any sensible referee would then use to wave off the fight, granting the KO to Tyson. Douglas wasn't stable, and he didn't even signal to the ref that he was ready. The ref plainly assumes it, and Douglas gets saved by the bell. Sitting in the corner, he was able to shake the cobwebs. Mike was aware of the ref's count too during his own knockdown, which is why he was frantically seeking his mouthpiece to beat the count. The ref was lightning quick to stop it at 9 even though Mike stood up.

Again, I'm not saying Mike should have won, as he was getting beat. But he actually did win, despite the beating he was taking, and suffered from some very poor ref'ing.

Tyson KO8 Douglas

[Thunder Lips]

Oh for crying out loud. Good thing Douglas was paying attention to the official in the ring, the only count that matters. Douglas clearly slams his glove into the canvas out of frustration and is looking the ref directly in the eye as he waits for the count. Please. I'm a big Tyson fan myself but he did not knock out Douglas.

"Mike was aware of the ref's count too during his own knockdown, which is why he was frantically seeking his mouthpiece to beat the count. The ref was lightning quick to stop it at 9 even though Mike stood up."

What the ****? Mike was grabbing at the ref when he was trying to stand, he had no legs and looked like a blind drunk trying to find a mouthpiece that was laying right in front of his face. The ref should have been shot if he let the fight continue with Mike like that.

[Brassangel]

I guess it's easy to get frustrated when you are dominating a fight and then get caught. Kelly Pavlik did that against Jermain Taylor in the 2nd round of their recent fight. He got ****y, and then got caught getting overconfident. He stood up quick after the knockdown, however, and was aware of the ref's count, but he was obviously not as together as it would seem, as one could see from his wobbly stature the remainder of that round. In similar fashion to Douglas, he came back to win anyway.

Douglas stood up and stumbles back, right around the 1:21 mark. Then watch him walk a zig-zag back to his corner with about 1:17 to go on the clip. Just because he was aware of the ref, doesn't mean he was perfectly coherent, and it doesn't erase the terrible job the ref performed. He actually pauses in between counts 6 and 7, just to look around the ring for some unknown reason.

Douglas even spends the first part of round 9 simply fending a winded, though slightly urgent Tyson, just to regain his composure.

I know Douglas "beat" Tyson that night. One of my first posts on this website was a lengthy dissertation outlining the reason why, regardless of this moment, Douglas beat him. It still doesn't take away from the fact that Mike still scored a KO, without being scored a KO.