Ali is Overrated

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali had Frazier "out on his feet" in the second and third fights. There you go, buddy.

He pulls that blind crap every few days. The guy's just an Ali hater pure and simple. I think I'll make a new name for him: For-Men CrossDresser

Poet

[butterfly1964]

He pulls that blind crap every few days. The guy's just an Ali hater pure and simple. I think I'll make a new name for him: For-Men CrossDresser

Poet

....

[Panamaniac]

My "Johnny Comelately" respose:

But besides that statement of the obvious, where have guys like Sabbath, K-Dogg, Kid Achilles, Buddy, Butterfly, Stinger, etc., run off to?

I only ask because I don't see much in the way of recent posts from any of these guys in the history section here.

Most forumers (myself included) prefer to read and post in the most active "non-stop boxing" forum for maximum views and replies.

As for Ali being overrated, Who's overrating him? Ali rightfully and consistently ranks among the top 5 greatest fighters overall, and within the top 3 heavyweights. I have yet to see a viable argument to the contrary, are you prepared to offer one?

[QueensburyRules]

But besides that statement of the obvious, where have guys like Sabbath, K-Dogg, Kid Achilles, Buddy, Butterfly, Stinger, etc., run off to?

I only ask because I don't see much in the way of recent posts from any of these guys in the history section here.

- -A corona computer virus was wiping out much of the BS population. Since you was offline, you was saved.

I love Ali, but, yeah, he hung on way past his sale date.

[BattlingNelson]

Yogi is the goat.

[billeau2]

We must always remember that half-blind, diabetes, hypertension Frazier easily beat Ali 11-4 in the FOTC. And average Norton beat him twice. There were several robberies involving Ali but I won't get into them.

****** ****** ******... Lets talk Frazier... Lets talk Grebb, lets talk Marciano shall we?

All of them never needed conventional boxing weapons, relying instead on relentless pursuit, indominable will, and using their own developed techniques. Marciano had his suzy Q, a punch that defied all logic, coming down over the opponent, being used by a fighter with no reach... Frazier had his left hook.

Diabetes and hypertension when managed don't affect an athlete in top condition, at least for a boxing match...and Frazier never fought off his back foot, or relied upon reach in a manner where he could use visual accuity to react to an opponent. Like Greb he came forward where tactile indicators and peripheral vision could be used... How do I know this? Because there is no way, otherwise either man could fight!

Frazier was so great that he developed a style of fighting... Mexican style on steriods lol, where he could impose himself, way past visual range on an opponent. and he was more than able to visually estimate Ali's error stepping straight back... thats a fact, and a fact that means he had enough vision.

[billeau2]

He decided not to jeopardize his boxing career and in turn, jeopardized his own abilities in the ring.

Also, in bad shape or not (during the exchange with Cooper), Ali was disciplined. He knew his own ability to recover. Obviously Cooper didn't land a KO punch the likes of Shavers, but it did scramble Ali's eggs a little bit. When they were "fixing" his glove in the corner, Ali's eyes were not set straight. If he would have immediately gotten back into the scuffle instead of being granted the break, he would have been a touch sloppy. Does that mean Cooper would have beaten him? Absolutely not. Does it show that there's a little myth to the mayhem? Definitely. Even so, this was simply the other side of a coin designed to showcase the hypocrasy which surrounds a man often given every excuse and praise over everyone else.

Just as a side note:

I've noticed that in Ali vs. Frazier II, Ali looked a lot more like his old self than he did in the other two fights. He danced for almost all of the 12 rounds, his punches were very snappy and accurate, and Frazier barely got anything done. He still cut off the ring at times, and worked the body, but he wasn't landing clean, bombastic hooks as he was in fights 1 and 3. While Joe was starting to decline following his fight with Foreman, I think that this very well could have been a more accurate portrayal of what may have happened had they fought in their prime.

BS. We adopt. Lets assume Frazier had a handicap with visual acuity:

1) He had far more of a handicap as a one armed fighter, with no real reach... yet he beat some of the best... ever. Ditto for Marciano, in neither case do we say "if those to had boxed conventionally, had more reach, they could have been better. No! Their style made them unique and special.

2) As an organism we adapt and improve in other areas when one area is lacking. how else does a one armed fighter do what Frazier accomplished?

The proof is in front of people... has critical thinking taken a holiday?

[billeau2]

People have it a s s backwards

History gives everyone a cooling off period, a time to pass when a fighter can be more generally compared to other fighters. It is not a way to overate fighters. Most overating occurs when we try to bestow greatness prematurely. How good is Mayweather? Ward? GGG? It is hard to tell right now. There has to be that period where people, and the fighter, are no longer contemporary.

Regarding Ali specifically he has stood the test of time. It is on the tape, it is in his ability to be chronically underestimated and find a way to win against fighters who were fellow ATG's.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Regretaby I say as Ali was a hero in his early days even as intellectually lagging behind his one of a kind physical talents, I've seen all his fights so it pains me to reduce him in the ranks of the greatest.

The "greatest" is always open to debate, but there are too many stylistic flaws exposed even in his prime. Sometimes he didn't even show up to illicitly take the decision.

[QueensburyRules]

Yogi is the goat.

- -Nelson, any clue as to why Yogi is no longer on this forum using his name?