Monzon & Hagler

[K-DOGG]

If you eliminate the great lighter weight former champions that Hagler fought (Duran, Hearns, Leonard) and concentrated instead on just his middleweight contenders they would look like this: Minter, Antuofermo, Sibson, Obelmejias (twice), Hamsho (twice), Lee, Scypion, Mugabi and Roldan. That's a pretty weak era.

Really makes one reevalute Bernard Hopkins and his era I would think. I've heard it said, and take it as boxing gospel that a great fighter needs great opposistion to prove his wares. That's why Robinson, Greb, Ketchel, and Monzon are so deserving of their accolades. With Hagler, his talent, drive, and hunger are apparent; but lilke Hopkins, most of his "bigger" fights were against "smaller" men.

[The Surgeon]

Really makes one reevalute Bernard Hopkins and his era I would think. I've heard it said, and take it as boxing gospel that a great fighter needs great opposistion to prove his wares. That's why Robinson, Greb, Ketchel, and Monzon are so deserving of their accolades. With Hagler, his talent, drive, and hunger are apparent; but lilke Hopkins, most of his "bigger" fights were against "smaller" men.

It duz duznt it! Im not a Hopkins fan at all, dont know why, but the thing i respect about him is the way after being critisized for beatin on lil guys ie Tito, Oscar, he stepped up and took on the no#1 Light heavy in the world. Its not so much the performance that impressed me (and it did!) but just taking the fight. I thought Tarver would win for sure, Hopkins fought great but i feel alot of peeps got caried away with it, because for me Tarver didnt show up

[K-DOGG]

It duz duznt it! Im not a Hopkins fan at all, dont know why, but the thing i respect about him is the way after being critisized for beatin on lil guys ie Tito, Oscar, he stepped up and took on the no#1 Light heavy in the world. Its not so much the performance that impressed me (and it did!) but just taking the fight. I thought Tarver would win for sure, Hopkins fought great but i feel alot of peeps got caried away with it, because for me Tarver didnt show up

I've always "liked" Hopkins...even when nobody knew who he was; but have never been "in awe" of him, if that makes any sense. When he fought Tarver and beat him so easily, I was in awe of him....just as I was when he beat Trinidad as handily as he did. However, like you, I don't think the Tarver we saw was at his best. Maybe it was age or maybe it was the same thing that caught up to Jones in his first fight with Antonio, rapid weight loss. Either way, B-Hopp was impressive that night.

[The Surgeon]

I've always "liked" Hopkins...even when nobody knew who he was; but have never been "in awe" of him, if that makes any sense. When he fought Tarver and beat him so easily, I was in awe of him....just as I was when he beat Trinidad as handily as he did. However, like you, I don't think the Tarver we saw was at his best. Maybe it was age or maybe it was the same thing that caught up to Jones in his first fight with Antonio, rapid weight loss. Either way, B-Hopp was impressive that night.

It makes sense Dogg! I actually liked him better when no1 knew him, he was more of a fighter. Yeah he was special against Trinidad Prick! He ****ed my boy up good! Thats probably why i dont like him! Im terrible for that, resented Holyfeild for years for beatin Tyson! I try to be a fight game fan instead of a fan of fighters but sumtimes u cant help it!

[K-DOGG]

It makes sense Dogg! I actually liked him better when no1 knew him, he was more of a fighter. Yeah he was special against Trinidad Prick! He ****ed my boy up good! Thats probably why i dont like him! Im terrible for that, resented Holyfeild for years for beatin Tyson! I try to be a fight game fan instead of a fan of fighters but sumtimes u cant help it!

I know what you mean man. These days I am more of a fan of the game than any of the players; but it's easy to get attacheched emotionally to a figter. Right now, for me, it's Lamon Brewster....just love his heart. You can't help it man. You just gotta love these guys who put it all on the line, ya know. And when your guy loses..it hurts. Hell I remember watching Ali lose the first Leon Spinks fight and felt like it was me...and I was jsut a kid at the time. Felt similar when Toney lost to Jones; but I ended up having so much respect for Jones that I got over it. It goes on and on....boxing, you gotta love it. No other sport even comes close to being as personal.

[brownpimp88]

Really makes one reevalute Bernard Hopkins and his era I would think. I've heard it said, and take it as boxing gospel that a great fighter needs great opposistion to prove his wares. That's why Robinson, Greb, Ketchel, and Monzon are so deserving of their accolades. With Hagler, his talent, drive, and hunger are apparent; but lilke Hopkins, most of his "bigger" fights were against "smaller" men.

Thomas hearns is bigger in size and has a longer reach, i'm sure hagler could cut 6 more pounds to make 154. Lets not forget hearns has fought as high as 193. Greb would have lost to hagler, the 20's and 80's are different ball parks.

[hhascup]

Did you watch Monzon I & II specially the 2dn fight when he turned Monzon into the ropes with a savage left hook to the rib cage and proceeded to pin him in the corner and brake Monzon nose.....that performane was just vintage BB!!!

Yes I did, I have all the fights on tape.

What I am saying is that Burley, Williams, Gibbons, and Archer were much better all around fighters then Briscoe was. Monzon fought a draw with him in 1967 and in their 2nd bout Monzon won pretty easy. Here's the scoring:

Judge: Raúl Amadeo 150-139
Judge: Hector Caumont 149-139
Judge: Jorge Alvin 149-143

I think both Hagler and Monzon were all time Greats. They both would have been Greats in any era.

[Yogi]

Again it goes both ways. Hearns broke his hand in the first round of the Hagler fight (supposedly the first one he landed) so your analogy of Hearns being stopped by Briscoe and using the Hagler fight as an example must also include an asterik as Hearns was fighting Hagler (in his career defining fight no less) without his best weapon. Hearns suffered hand injuries in too many fights to remember (Benitez, Medal immediately off the top of my head) against world class competition and still won.

No, that one doesn't go bo ways, because one fighter (Briscoe) entered the ring with a sickness that had nothing to do with his in-ring actions nor his opponent, whereas Hearns injury was entirely a result of an in-ring action of hitting his hard-headed opponent...A pretty big difference there, and Hearns' injury isn't all that different than a cut eye or other injuries of that were a result of in-ring action.

But I'd still like to hear your breakdown on how Hearns matches up with Briscoe & Valdez, seeing as how you "STRONGLY" disagreed with me and my predictions...What weaknesses he's going to going to exploit & take advantage of from either fighter, and things of that nature.

P.S. I'm personally not factoring this into the equation (just because it doesn't need to be from my part), but if you say Hearns had hand problems for a lot/some of his middleweight career, who is to say that he's not going to break his hand on the hard heads of the very durable pair, Briscoe & Valdez?

[K-DOGG]

Thomas hearns is bigger in size and has a longer reach, i'm sure hagler could cut 6 more pounds to make 154. Lets not forget hearns has fought as high as 193. Greb would have lost to hagler, the 20's and 80's are different ball parks.

I don't think Greb would have lost to Hagler at all. Greb was perpetual motion, a swarmer of incredible speed and could fight as dirty as any of them. Greb beat Tunney and that's saying something. No, I don't see Hagler beating Greb.....at 160, it makes no difference whether a fighter fought in the 20's or the 80's or the 00's for that matter.

[brownpimp88]

I don't think Greb would have lost to Hagler at all. Greb was perpetual motion, a swarmer of incredible speed and could fight as dirty as any of them. Greb beat Tunney and that's saying something. No, I don't see Hagler beating Greb.....at 160, it makes no difference whether a fighter fought in the 20's or the 80's or the 00's for that matter.

Its ur opinion i'm not gonna change it but the fact of the matter is no one saw greb fight, its all a legend myth that people go by.