yep.. so was leonard whom camacho beg to fight.. it's just a vicious cycle you know.. what goes around comes around..:boxing:
Hey Yeks, I posted my bet of 10k of Hatton winning over Pacquiao with you in my signature. Sig it up?
Its hard to hate on Klitschko as time goes on.
History will recognize him as a good champion. But not a exciting one. Being dominant as a HW doesn't equal being EXCITING as a HW champion.
That would be an impressive run, but "best ever to lace them up"? I don't think so.
And if Cotto and Williams keep winning in the meantime, then most people - other than some Floyd fans - would want to see him to beat them too, before retiring again, to prove beyond doubt that he's the best at his weight.
But the three fight run you mentioned would certainly give him a much better legacy than he has now.
"Best ever to lace them ****ing gloves up" is a quote directly from Roger Mayweather on the Hatton vs Mayweather series, not in my opinion certainly. Floyd Mayweather Jr also believes he is the best there ever was and isn't shy in vocalizing his opinion on it either. I would like to see him take on Cotto as well, but let's see how Miguel does with Clottey first. Something tells me Clottey is catching Cotto at the perfect time to pull an upset, and Clottey certainly has the defense to go all 12 rounds to keep Cotto honest....
Lots of fighters have been knocked cold and suffered no long term effects. Maurice Hope's knock-out by Benitez was much worse than Hatton's, and his long term health wasn't affected. The fighters who got Parkinson's or slurred speech or similar disabilities mostly took prolonged beatings, which Hatton never has. I still think he should retire though, but not for that reason.
This is a fact. Prolonged beatings are what give you a much greater risk of developing pugilistic dementia, aka Parkinson's. Look at Freddie Roach and Muhammad Ali, both guys who fought longer than they should have and took considerable beatings for years and years.
Where did you get your info that manny is invincible and can beat everybody at welterweight? I think it was only you who said that...
He just destroyed your boy for 2 rounds and now your calling him a hype?
I never said he was invincible or that he could beat everyone at WW. I'm mocking this massive Pacquiao nuthugfest going on at the moment. Make no mistake, I consider Pac to be a great fighter, but every man has his limits, and 147 is NOT for Pacquiao. Even Roach admitted there are a few guys Pac could beat at 147, which were Margarito and Oscar, and he didn't feel comfortable having Pacquiao fight any higher than 140 otherwise.
So, that being said, this story comes out, with Roach saying come down lower than 147 for the potential Cotto matchup, and that's lame to me. I dislike excess hype towards a fighter like this, and catchweights in general defeat the whole point of weightclasses to me. If Pac can't make fight Cotto at 147, it shouldn't happen.
And yes, Pacquiao deserves all the credit for beating Hatton. No argument at all from me there. I am only annoyed with this general perception that Pacquiao is somehow unstoppable now. How quickly people forget the JMM fights and how vulnerable Manny is to a SUPERIOR BOXER, not necessarily a superior FIGHTER. He can be countered and anyone like JMM and PBF that forces Pacquiao to come forward to be countered will always be a problem for him. Be realistic, that's all I'm saying people.
Looks like she only has one arm.
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/image.php?u=108494&dateline=1245251936
The drummer from Def Leppard's only got one arm!
You're missing the point. If he doesn't want to fight Mosley at a weight Mosley can manage without being weight drained, he can just say no to the fight. It's really very simple.
But asking someone to come in weight drained makes a complete farce of a great sport.
This. 100% agree. Weightdraining can KILL YOU. It decreases the water weight in your body and especially your skull area, thus decreasing the padding your body needs to absorb damage. Boxers can and do die in this sport for this very reason. Does a high profile boxer need to excessively weightdrain and die in dramatic fashion to get this point across? Is Somalia or any other weightdrained place on Earth appealing? Ok, now apply that to fighting somebody. See the problem yet?
Sugar Ray Leonard has stated that Floyd Mayweather Jr is the
greatest fighter of all time. When Floyd first signed to Top Rank,
Bob Arum got Oscar De La Hoya and Sugar Ray Leonard to try to
mentor Floyd but Floyd said "I'll do my own thing and you do yours"
Really? Is that why Bert Sugar said this week that Sugar Ray Robinson vs FMJ who wins was a no hesitation "SRL. No contest, easily" in answering who wins?
Your premise is off. Wlad fought differently in that fight. For a 6'6, 250 pound man, he wasted too much energy on Brewster, as if he were a Lighter weight type of a fighter. He tired himself out. To Brewster's credit, he had a granite chin and survived long enough to witness Wlad gassing out, and he rightfully capitalized on it.
Since then, Stewart has helped Wlad perfect his Tall-man style of fighting, and made him a more effective fighter. Nothing wrong with that.
Which means that he is not fighting down to the level of his competition. He is fighting above their level, by not letting them in and giving them a chance when he doesn't have to. Even though it's just semantics, your wording is still wrong. Fighting to their level would mean not fighting like a tall fighter and trying to brawl.
Which is a good thing. Completely unnecessary. Would you ask Shaq O'neal to abandon his Center position and play like Kobe Bryant by being a point guard. No, of course not.
Not completely true, but yes something like that.
Pavlik? If he was Pavlik, he would've gotten school by now. Pavlik is more of a brawler, than a world class boxer like Wlad. I know you didn't mean that.
I hope not.
The Pavlik comparison was is a viable one. Pavlik was all 1-2 punch his whole career. Remember Pavlik vs Taylor 1? So is W. Klitschko. All left jab straight right hand. He has switched it up a bit and had a random left hook KO once in a great while, but not often. It's all 1-2 right hand lights out. The difference i was claiming is Pavlik never got laid out in a KO, but W. Klitschko got laid out 3 times by KO. They bought fought long, lean similar fighting style for their weightclass, namely LONG, BIG fighters for their weightclass. It's a reasonable comparison.
Klitschko has optimized his whole career off the last Brewster loss. Emmanuel Steward is the reason for this. He saw a GIANT version of the Hitman Hearns in front of him, and realized this is how to maximize the fighter he had. No more KO losses while I am in the corner. Now he is dead RIP Steward and we will see what happens now with Banks the protege in the corner. I guarantee you it won't get remotely the same results without Steward there.
Hatton vs Pacquiao
First of all, size isn't going to win the fight for Hatton here. What I believe will win the fight is Hatton's consistent pressure and his ability to deliver savage body shots, the kind that Pacquiao is ill suited for. Hatton is the bigger man obviously, but we all know that size doesn't win fights, skills do. My money is on Hatton, and I'll be there on May 2nd to watch him handle the business.
Pacquaio lost the darts match by the way.
-MrOsborne
Mosley at 142 is not a fair condition. It's BS. Hank Armstrong used to fight real welters giving up 10-15 lbs. and kicked their ass.
Man up or stay out of welter. So what if a bunch of people went 'he ducked Mosley.' 20 years from now it will mean dick.
Mayweather got accused of some ducks in divisions where he was firmly established...one that never gained traction was Winky Wright because at the end of the day it was TOO big. There is no shame in the former Feather and Fly champ to say, "Too Big" in the era of day before weigh ins.
Excellent point with the Armstrong reference. Unless you are taking all conceivable odds AGAINST YOU and stepping up to a weight you are too small for and assured to lose, then it isn't greatness. Period. That's what FMJ fans fail to grasp, and Pacman lunatics as well. Weightdraining a bigger guy and forcing him to be weak from the outset is called HANDICAPPING. Why not just tie one hand behind his back too? Ridiculous.
I knew it. This verifies it. Pacquiao likes the perception of belief that he can beat true 147 fighters, but it's an obvious fabrication. Mosley would knock his little ass into next week and he knows it. Pacquiao should simply state look, I realize what I have done is remarkable but I'm not a 147 fighter and I never will be. That would be tremendously more acceptable and respectable than maintaining this facade that the mighty mouse can take out much larger fighters who will illustrate the meaning of beatdown to Pacquiao without breaking a sweat. Cotto, Mosley, and Mayweather(who I cannot stand personally) will beat Pacquiao decisively. He's reached his plateau and will be summarily dismissed reaching for the lofty Mt Olympus goals. It's called Zeus bitch. He's waiting and will thunderbolt your ass back to reality.
You really feel that way? ...based on beating whom?
The man completely demolished everyone he fought at 135, and most by extremely violent KO.He beat Jesse James Leija by KO, John John Molina by KO, and Wilfredo Ruiz by KO, all for 135 title fights. This is not including the typical "Who are they?" 135 fighters who also were KOed by Mosley. See for yourself on boxrec.com.
Williams vs Wright....
Williams UD. All respect due to Winky, the man has fought everybody of notice, came up short a couple times due to questionable decisions, but time is a mofo and we all get our due by Father Time someday. This fight will be that sad day for Winky unfortunately. I respect Winky immensely for his defensive prowess but all lions get fed to the new breed someday, sorry Winky. The Punisher comes through 8-4 UD here no problem.
And who's resume compares to Ali, SRR, or SRL? Stop trying to compare Floyd's resume unless you are willing to put forth a comparison of other boxers...
Let's see.... Joe Louis, Henry Armstrong,Roberto Duran, George Foreman, Oscar De La Hoya to name a few. All great fighters, all faced supreme who's who type of opposition, all had lengthy careers.
Alright it's reality time. Here's what Mosley should do:
1. Fight Berto, knock him out, have multiple belts at 147.
2. After he defeats Berto, wait for the dust to settle at 147 and see what's what.
3. Knock stupid bitch ass Mayweather's ass out, who FMJ will never man up and fight because Shane can and will dominate him and take that shoulder-roll BS to the trashcan where it belongs.
4. Retire.
Klitschko is gonna smash Haye..!
Whoever imposes their will from the first round takes this fight by KO. They both have very questionable chins so this is anybody's fight to lose, and I expect it will be a great fight for as long as it lasts.
What do you think about a Pavlik vs Kessler matchup at 168? I think that would be an incredible fight.....
Obviously you werent paying attention. Delaquitter was looking for a fight to make him look good and Pacman was his choice (Delaquitter was the one who wanted that fight, Pac never called out Delaquitter, WAKE UP). Roach said sure well fight you but at this weight. Delaquitter agreed which was his first mistake and now him and all his followers look like FOOLS. Roach said were not fighting at this weight again its just for the Delaquitter fight. True statement right there.
Mosley wants the big money fight, then he'll have to agree to those big money terms.
De La Hoya took the perceived "easy' route in picking on a much smaller fighter in Pacquiao. That was weaksauce in my opinion, and he got what he deserved. He was a fool for trying to return to a weight he hadn't made in a decade in order to achieve a default victory over a smaller but great fighter in Pacquiao. There's a term for that: Hubris. Look it up.
Roach only took the fight because he trained DLH and KNEW he would be a zombie at the weight. What's next? Is Michael Jordan badass for stomping a Junior Varsity Basketball team all by himself? Why wouldn't he? He has every conceivable advantage! If you define your heroes by how many "advantages" they have to concede in order to even face them in the ring, then I don't know what to tell you other than that's weak and laughable because it is!
He isnt too small, just because he chose to wait until now to move up doesnt mean he is smaller than fighters at weights above him. Castillo was not a 135lber? Hatton in the UK fought mostly very old men who didnt have much of a chance. Be fair is all Im asking.
I try to be as fair and level headed towards all discussions. Marquez just recently started to fight above 130 at lightweight, and he's at the tail end of his career and approaching 40 sooner than later. If anything history teaches you is that fighters who have been considered great fighters that inevitably move up in weight do not fare as well. Are there exceptions? Sure there are. By and large they get outsized, don't have the reflexes/speed in their delivery or reactions, and take punishment from much harder hitting fighters due to the weight. Even the great Sugar Ray Robinson isn't immune to this idea as he moved up to MW and even a LHW match in the twilight of his career. The idea is every man has a certain limit in size before someone bigger and equally skilled will beat your ass, and that's why weight classes are in existence.
So yes, I am being fair at least in my opinion. Ever heard the saying, "Why don't you pick on someone your OWN SIZE?" Evidently boxers have forgotten this adage in chasing the mega payday, and that's sad.
i suspected that aswel, the amount of money put into khan i think it smelt a bit fishy, i mean why stop the fight at rd 5? the cut was bad before that, n aint the rules if stopped before round 4 its a NC and a rematch?
It's beyond obvious that was a hometown call. The rules clearly state if a cut is severe enough to be a danger to a fighter's health, it should be a NC if not past the 4th round. The cut was horrific from the beginning, and if the fight was anywhere but in England that would have been stopped immediately. Extreme hometown bias.
That being said, Marco was slow and looked old. Granted that cut would mess anyone up badly during a fight, but it is what it is.
If he is going to fight one more fight, fight Erik Morales on a retirement bet. Loser says No Mas.
Not it's not a reasonable comparison. There are 0 similarities. If you allow yourself to get outboxed by Jermain Taylor and schooled by Hopkins, you're not even in the same vicinity as Wlad Klitschko. Wlad Klitschko has proven that he can handle any style and produce the same result. There is literally nobody that would "have his number" stylistically. They may beat him (lucky punch, him getting gassed etc,.), but 9 times out of 10, he would win, theoretically speaking. It's almost not worth addressing but I did anyway, which will be the last time.
Yes, and I've already said this in so many words, except my explanation didn't have the bad connotation behind it as yours. Steward PERFECTED HIS TALL-MAN FIGHTING STYLE. There is nothing wrong with that. He taught him to do MORE with LESS, and achieve the same results. A more Conservative fighter. Wlad is not meant to fight and move around like a Welterweight. This is a good thing, despite your efforts to paint it as a negative.
How can you even say that? Wlad got Ko'ed 3 times when fighting with the same style as Pavlik. Pavlik stood up to beatdowns, Wlad got KO'ed, when he himself was fighting with a very similar 1-2 style. Wlad never faced a "Hopkins of the Heavyweights". Pavlik faced the Hopkins of Mw/LHW, which existed. I
fail to see the point here. I guess you could say James Toney would be a "Hopkins of Heavyweights" type style if anyone could, but cmon due. Wlad has NEVER been tested in about 8 years. Ever. Not even close.
I learned along time ago, if you sit around waiting for someone
or somebody to give you something or an opportunity that you
feel you earned, then prepare to be disappointed. Nothing is
guaranteed to you in life, you have to work for it and while
Shane paid his dues in the sport of boxing and I do agree he
should get a mega payday but from the business aspect he
didn't do enough and remember, he had the biggest win over
Oscar De La Hoya in his prime and couldn't even run with it.
Shane should have been in De La Hoyas shoes right now
after Oscar stepped out of them.
That's true. He should have been a lot farther along in terms of notoriety/success, but that's life. He is trying now to accomplish it so all credit to him for that. I don't like him pursuing the smaller guys for the paydays but it is what it is. They are the draws at the moment, but I'd much rather see Mosley fight Cotto again personally.
Pac could miss a shot and the wind generated would drop Khan...
Nah Khan is freddie's other project..
If roach can do to khan what his done for pac Roach is the best trainer that would have ever lived!
It's not going to happen. Khan doesn't have the chin that Pacquiao does, nor is he a southpaw. Take those two attributes away and what do you have? A speedy orthodox fighter who isn't particulary a hard hitter and can be toppled like little kid's Legos. Kotelnik will prove this soon.
Valero will win by KO, but I expect Pitalua's power to make him a live underdog in this one. I haven't recalled seeing Valero hurt before but if anyone could do it it is Pitalua, this man can punch. Should be a good one.
The real truth, coming from a Hatton fan
I was hoping that it wasn't going to come down to the blame game, but invariably it always seems to when a fighter loses in destructive fashion. It saddens me to see that people are looking to point fingers at exactly why Hatton lost, and I suppose that's an obligation to all the people who bet on Hatton to win(I lost $300 on him for example), and a cushion for his loyal fans who have supported him for years to somehow feel better about Ricky's loss.
The fact of the matter is that Ricky fought the wrong fight from the beginning. He fought in the style he was known for and didn't implement the gameplan that was worked on. This much is evident and we can all see it. Regardless of what happened in the training camp and the supposed turmoil, fighting the way he did with his hands low, swinging for the fences, and not giving any upper body movement or feints is what lost him this bout. Given Pacquiao's inherent speed advantages and ability to see the left hook coming from a mile away didn't help the Hitman at all in this fight.
I have been a Hatton fan since 2005 and I still am one unlike some people who jump off the burning wagon when their hero goes down in flames. The fact of the matter is, fan of Hatton or not, he fought the wrong fight and ran straight into the massive left hook. It simply could not have been helped no matter who trained him, and blaming anybody besides Ricky is pointless here. The man came out and fought his heart out, got up twice, and tried his best and failed. There is no shame in that, and to see it spiraling into a sordid mess of "It's not my fault it's yours" is a real shame and a discredit to a great fighter who came up short to only the best of our era.
Side note: I sincerely hope Ricky retires. He has nothing else to prove.
All I have to say is Mayweather vs Jmm....making the 135 pounder go 145 and that was Money's choice. You did not hear Pac say that he wouldn't take the fight now did you?
I don't defend Mayweather at all in his choice of a return opponent in Marquez. JMM is an outstanding fighter but he is a career featherweight/super feather and outsized/outspeeded in FMJ. In my opinion FMJ is weak for this choice and many would agree with that statement. He could have fought any 147 titleholder such as Clottey, Cotto, Mosley. He didn't. Why?
Pacquiao will only take the fight if it's another DLH Zombie fight. He understands it's a trip to Queer Street vs a full 147 Mosley. Roach knows it.
The question you have to ask yourself is this:
What happens when Pacquiao hits Mosley full force FLUSH in the face, and Mosley isn't even remotely hurt by it? Weightdrained or not?
It's called Pacman is face down taking a nap Hatton style.
Source for Glen Johnson vs Adamek....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrosborne View Post
The good news is Glen Johnson vs Adamek is a MUCH better fight, and it's in the works as a possibility.
Yeah, that would be a great fight to watch. Both guys come forward. Where did you hear this news? Thanks.
Right here:
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=19131
Juanma is going to be a great fighter, and I am extremely impressed with him so far. I'd love to see him move up to 126 as he said is going to do soon and face Yuriorkis Gamboa or Rafael Marquez. Either of those fights would be extremely violent and a must see event for fans of boxing. I think JuanMa would beat Gamboa and be 50/50 against Rafa, depending on how much those Vazquez fights took out of him of course.