Lennox>Wlad/Vitali>Fury/Joshua/Wilder. Willard would get pulverised by the above. His style was limited & crude. I definitely wouldn't use him as any type of comparison to this era. His style along with every single Boxer from the previous depression era is outdated.
Why would you say Jess would get creamed when Willard can take their best punch but they couldn't take Willard's best punch.
Their size is a detriment in a boxing ring.
In a MMA type fight the above guys you named would rule.
Put Boxing gloves on your guys you handicap them.
For one their center of gravity is to high to maintain their balance, anytime they need to deviate from a straight vertical position they loose their balance.
Anytime they throw a punch, they are limited by their high center of gravity, keeping them locked into vertical position.
They have no mobility.
They move like an energized Frankenstein coming to life.
They can't bounce off their toes.
They can't roll with a punch.
They are slow, so slow they telegraph their punches.
They are suckers for a feint.
Which doesn't matter considering they don't know how to employ one.
How can you call that refined?
simply not a student of the game
Dempsey would be cruiserweight contender today, and probably champ with one of the belts. HW would e be difficult for him but he'd beat many top 20 guys.
And anyone who thinks Dempsey, the first truely modern boxer, is crude is simply not a student of the game.
So true the only thing crude is the quality of the film.
As Ray Arcel said
(For those of you who think "Well Ray Arcel was looking back to the glory days of their past.
Everyone thinks the boxers of their time were better")
I remind you Arcel trained Duran and thought Duran was as good as anyone past and present.)
Arcel said "When anyone talks of who the greatest heavyweight of all time is.
Dempsey should be the only guy everyone thinks about.
The night he won the title from Willard.
WHO WAS BETTER THEN THAT!!!"
Check out this 4 punch combination.
Or more to be more accurate.. 4 separate
and succinct explosions of body weight
Dempsey is at his prime as a fighter.
He's literally hurling his body at his opponent.
His punching accuracy is pinpoint.. in other words.
"Every punch landing the way he intends them
to land"
The result:
A man whose been hit hard enough in his past to damn near tear his ear off.
Yet never before been knocked off his feet
Is dropped like an ox in a slaughterhouse.
Dempsey who has just turned 24.
But with an unheard of 60+ recorded professional fights under his belt already, at this young age.
Also the survivor of perhaps hundreds of fights
in mining camps and saloons since he was 16.
Trained to be a fighter since age 6 by his brothers who are both professional fighters.
The only thing crude about this resume is the deteriorated quality of film stock these exploits are recorded on
In many ways we never got to see Dempsey at
his best. The closest we got was Dempsey vs Willard.
His best was 1918 the year he had most of his fights.
Dempsey with his
("As soon as the bell rang his one goal was to get on his man and knock him horizontal") attitude
You didn't turn him loose once the bell rang.
"YOU UNLEASHED HIM"
NOTHING IS NEW! Its all been done before
Dempsey weighed around 220-225 before he began training
According to him and reporters covering his pre-fight activities.
Where Dempsey lacks bulk is in his legs his upper body is that of 225 pounder its his legs are skinny.
I'm curious about improved techniques comment.
Boxing isn't rocket science .Only so many ways to throw a punch or to duck.
Do you think Klitschko's improved under Steward?
Or boxers in Joe Louis's day had improved
compared to 29 years before?.
Ok who taught Joe Louis ?
Jack Blackburn who learned in the early years of the 20th century
Well who taught Blackburn ? Someone who learned in the 1800s
Do you think Klitschkos improved under Steward?
I know Kalan does Kalan said "Klitschko was stopped 3 times before he got with Steward, had a chance to
learn new skills, and learned how to box correctly."
Yet who taught Steward? Jimmy Myland and Festus Trice Who taught them ?
So how can techniques be improved when all knowledge is passed down,
NOTHING IS NEW! Its all been done before
Cus Damato believed everything about boxing offensive and defensive techniques
Had all been invented by the 20's. Nothing new since then.He was right.
The success of bigger heavyweights is not because they have caught up skill wise
They have always had access to same learning source.
A boxer after a certain size bigness becomes a handicap..Too awkward, ungainly. off balance.Before a top notch 200=220lb
could exploit that.But the best American athletes don't want to become boxers
That's why its regressed in US;
Russia and other countries took over and their skill set is like it was back here in the 1910's
Mostly stand straight English classical style.Heavies are too overgrown so they're limited to that straight English classical style because the stylistic styles
the great American boxers excelled at' leave a fighter that doesn't have the athleticism to pull it off unbalanced
A guy 7ft could never fight like Ali cause he's to big he's already off balance
But taking a punch as a weakness is serious flaw an ATG has to be able take a punch
Why has a glass jaw detriment been overlooked by super size with limited technique proponents?
How can one rationalize an ATG list with no fighter being able to take a serious punch? Explainhttps://youtu.be/YctsiUqvipg
If size didn't matter, boxing wouldn't have divisions
If size didn't matter, boxing wouldn't have divisions.
Correction if size didn't matter boxing wouldn't have
lighter divisions Only one heavyweight division.
They thought about making a super heavyweight
division but the big guys kept getting creamed.
Like Willard Dempsey, Carnera Louis, even more
recent Wladimer Sanders.
The funny thing was Sanders was easily 20-30 lbs
overweight which did nothing for his power but it effected his speed which didn't stop him from exposing Klitschko's glaring weakness. Wladimers inability to take a punch.
Dempsey had more firepower then Sanders.
Sanders impure punching isn't in the same class as Jack's pure "whole body behind the punch" punching.
Dempsey's weapon is his body weight
He was at his peak as a fighter the night he won
the title his body weight was moving like lightning.
He's constantly hurling his weight against Willard. A perfect analogy is a 190 lb weight being dropped off a roof landing on Jess's head.
Willard showed why he's head and shoulders above the
current crop of guys his size. Willard can actually take a heavyweights punch.Gunboat Smith hit Willard in the ear so hard it practically tore Willard's ear off.
Willard didn't budge an inch The gunner even had his
gloves loaded
A 6 ft 5+ giant from today is more competent than one from any time pre 2000s
My point being a 6 ft 5+ giant from today is more competent than one from pre 1930s. You really disagree with this?.
I agree size could be a hinderance overall, you only have to look as far as Rahman, Oliver & Ross.
As much as it pains me to say this. Yes I do agree a 6 ft 5+ giant from today is more competent than one from pre 1930s I would even say a a 6 ft 5+ giant from today is more competent than one from any time pre 1930s
[Only his age is breaking him down because no fighter ever has.
And he's still undefeated!!!
At 37 years of age...
Yeah but at the rate age is breaking him down is not fast at all..I think he is in as good of shape as a fighter in his 20s..Look how hard he trains guys at 37 don't want to train that hard ..he trains ..Floyd trains hard like a contender
fighting for his first shot at the title...If he loses a fight it won't be because he didn't train hard enough..Floyds ring age is young ..Notice he has an uncanny ability to time and move his body in little motions that make it difficult to land a solid punch on him..Its like he feints,...deflects . taking punishment
is what ages you ..Ring Age.. probably look 10 years older facing guys like Duran Hearns Hagler ..Win lose or draw..Floyd would be taking more punches ..
Question:
Would anyone survive a power punch from Wladimir with the gloves they wore in say, 1910?
I just can't see it.
The guy starches guys with the modern day pillows, imagine what he would do with like an MMA size glove.
That's ridiculous.[/QU
Wladimir hit no harder then Willard or Carnera..that's because they were just as strong as him..Don't believe it?? Well believe it..Willard was a circus strongman ..He killed a man with a uppercut..He probably punched harder then Wladimir....When a guy like Dempsey punched it was an act of moving his bodyweight..So he would launch his body forward with his fist in front..Every punch is like dropping a 190 ibs on the top of your head..Thats a pure punch..The Klitschkos are impure punchers..They are unable to launch their body weight because they don't have the strength to keep their balance that causes impure punching..When Dempsey fought Willard he was at his peak as a fighter..His body was moving like lightning....Even though
Willard was a lot bigger and stronger then him he was unable to take a 190 lbs constantly being dropped on him..
We did see Wladimir fight back then.
Actually we saw a version of Wladimir that was every bit as good but with the advantage of being able to take a punch easily 5 times what Wladimir can take today!!
We saw those punches of Sanders that took Wladimir out..They wouldn't have taken Willard out...Outside of a ring like a no glove anything goes
fight...Guys like Klitschko's would twist a 200lb guys head off..But gloved against a 200lb guy that knows how to move their bodyweight fast like a Dempsey ..They get starched like Willard and all those 6'4"-6'6
250lb+ white hopes Dempsey starched on his way to the top...It was
fast moving little guys that were not as strong as Dempsey who could beat him..Sanders was nowhere near Wladimirs strength Yet I never seen a fighter get owned like Sanders owned him..Wladimir will always be Sander's little *****..he was helpless