Agit is around Wardley level and tries to bank on the Knyba fight being enough to land a world title shot.
I cannot see Wardley/Agit comparison at all. Wardley is more like Wilder. Agit is not a heavy puncher, but is very technically sound and very tough. Watch his fight against Chisora. Wardley wouldn’t be able to fight Chisora in that way in a million years.
Just pointing out something related to the whole thread. A ref technically has the right to stop a fight at any point prior to or post a bell ringing. What makes it controversial here is the ref’s own admission that he stopped it as he didn’t hear the bell. But technically, it is not against the rules; he stops a fight at any point he wants, including in-between the rounds.
Thinking about it and listing to the reactions, I think there are only two realistic / good options:
1. Rematch Rico, retire
2. Fight Kabayel, rematch Rico, retire.
Fight Rico then Kabayel is not ideal, as it means more waiting for Kabayel, although Kabayel should start thinking of fighting someone semi decent in the meantime (I wouldn’t mind someone like Whyte, Ajagba, Vianello).
Anyone not seeing the difference between Usyk last weekend and his usual self is either biased or has never seen his fights before. No head movement, no lateral movement, waiting too long on punches, super soft body by his standards, career heaviest… It barely looked like Usyk in the ring.
Usyk obviously took it lightly or he is completely shot. I like Rico, but he is a novice and although tricky, not someone who would survive more than 5-6 rounds even with an average Usyk. Usyk on the weekend was super poor. Cannot judge him based on that at all.
And yes Usyk was “invincible” in the same way those other listed. Just not at HW as that doesnt make sense both by the fact that being HW where no one is invincible (ask Lennox!) + him fighting against 30+ lbs heavier punchers. Check his fight against Gassiev - the definition of invincibility.
AI can help in some sports, but it can't replace humans in boxing for one simple reason: AI needs people to train it. And as someone posted a few pages back - imagine if those people are like Adalaide Byrd... Plus, whoever the AI creator is, he will never reveal the algorithms behind, so we will never know the basis on which the AI makes judgments. Plus, you can always question a referee or a judge for their decisions, but you can't question AI the same way (there will be multiple people behind it and nobody at the same time). As much as it might appear neutral, he can't take the blame either, so this could complicate situations way further.
Boxing can use earpieces for the referees, where they can hear better (the timekeeper mainly), because of poor excuses like Lyson's the other night. Multiple angles and instant replies (for questionable low blows, you know)... Also, make contestations process should be reviewed by neutral sides and not a single one. Or encourage draw rounds, because there are relatively often such, especially in early rounds (1 through 3).
The AI in Fury-Usyk II was even worse than the judges.
You obviously don’t understand how AI works…
I'm suprised you say 10th is hard to say. although I didnt count the rounds, I remember usyk had rico wobbled at the end of the 10th which led to what usyk did to rico in the next round
I am leaning towards Usyk that round, but maybe if one goes of the activity in the first part of the round, I have no problem if one gives the 10th to Rico. I think I already said I had it either 96-94 (Rico) or 95-95 going into the 11th. Starting of the 12th, I would have it either level or Usyk by 2. But if it came to the 12th I don’t think the scoring would matter, so a bit of a mute point..
Scored it 8 - 2 at the time of the Usyk save, you may have it 7 - 3 but any closer is rigged just like the judges
I scored it 1, 3, 5 , 7, 9 for Rico; 2, 4 , 6 , 8 for Usyk. The 10th hard to say - Rico was more active, Usyk hurt him way more.
Happy do discuss any of these rounds.
Usyk did not finish the job, the ref ended the fight outside regulatory time.
Technically that is correct in the same way it is correct Usyk would be up on all 3 judges scorecards going into the 12th. Both hypothetical, as well as most people being convinced Rico would get stopped early in the 12th.
None of it really matters now. Factually Usyk finished the job in the 11th and the ref made a mistake. Not Usyk’s fault.
i can agree with this since i dont watch many usyk fights. rico had good moments but usyk got the job done and end of 10th and 11th round is proof.
if it went the 12th, rico would have got some more a$$ whooping by usyk.
I have no doubt Usyk stops him in the first 30 secs of Round 12 if the ref didn’t stop it. However, the ref should have let it go, as that was a correct thing to do. Maybe he made both men a huge favour setting up a very lucrative rematch.
It was this fight all night long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ZonuFFm9E
No. Rico had good moments and made it very competitive, arguably winning going into the 11th. Full credit to Rico. Usyk had his worst night probably over the last 15 years. Still, he did what elites do. He found a way to finish the job.
Outclassing still remains to be seen , this fight was awarded by the referee waving off the fight after the round time had expired.
So if he rematches and outclasses him he deserves credit and we should not be hearing should have fought Agit/Moses/etc… instead?
Nah he’s just not the GOAT.
ATG for sure and incredible boxing skills but he can’t fight inside. His inside game is piss poor and we saw glimpses of this vs Del Boy. As some others have said, I’d favour pretty much all elite level swarmers to not just beat him but to ragdoll his ass.
Inoue is the best of this generation. I put Bam ahead of him to and Crawford. Maybe even Bivol.
Ali didnt go to a body, just saying. Btw cannot disagree more he cannot fight inside. Watch his CW fights. Of course he wont stay inside with men outweighing him 30+ lbs (laws of physics still apply for Usyk :)).
The rematch should happen because Usyk will despite his legendary career then always be remembered as that boxer that got slapped around the ring by a 6 month beginner and got assigned a Win outside of regular round time.
Very much doubt that - maybe by a very small portion of people for whom he rematching and KOing Rico again wont make a difference. For vast majority Usyk is a legend that did everything in the sport multiple times. One of the very best ever.
Is there anyone that calls him a cheat (or whatever) now that will change their mind if he rematches and outclass Rico?
Usyk got robbed of a highlight KO and a great clean come back after being at his very worst. Only elites can do that.
The ref should have not stopped the fight. Doesnt matter - he will rematch him and beat him with ease. Then retire as an ATG and one of boxing GOATs.
Really feel for Agit. He needs his chance yesterday. I if Usyk does rematch Rico, he drops the belts. I personally would forget Rico, and fight Agit at a full stadium in Germany instead (if Usyk wants one more). It would be a great fight, and an appropriate ending of an outstanding career.
Well no, fury didn't lose he outlanded Ngannou in almost every round, Usyk lost 10 out of 11 rounds and did not "KO" rico, the ref jumped in and ended the fight to save Usyk at the FIRST possible opportunity.
No, he did not lost 10 out of 11 rounds, lol (even if you want to go with the stats it was close).
As for the ref “saving” Usyk.. why did he let Rico take 30 secs to find his mouthpiece and survive after the first KD?
Do you think if Rico was allowed to enter the 12th round he would last the end? You disagree with Peter Fury that said he was done at that point?
As for Fury, I had him winning, but it was razor close, and Ngannou put him on his back. I could see the argument for Ngannou winning. We saw Ngannou level when he faced AJ.
Sorry cannot take you seriously when you say Usyk lost all the rounds - you don’t like Usyk, that’s fine, but you need to be more measured. Even Rico himself said that he thought it was close / level at the time of the stoppage.
Fury was given NO QUARTER when he had his brain fart vs Ngannou
Time for Usyk to take his licks
There is a difference that Fury genuinely might have lost that fight and was put on his back. Usyk KO’d Rico.
BTW, Rico would annihilate Ngannou in a boxing ring.
No there will be no retiring now for Usyk.
If he runs from the rico rematch and Kabayel he will be laughed into retirement.
He chose to be greedy belly, now he will pay the price.
Yes, that is the risk he took, and I agree it would be fair to give Rico a rematch. Basically, I see two path:
- Give up belts, rematch Rico, retire
- Fight Agit, rematch Rico, retire
Although, still nothing wrong (and probably the best route) is just to retire. Rico did extremely well, but at the end he got KOd. Lennox never gave Vitali a rematch and Vitali was much more deserving. He took a year to decide and decided to retire. People complained, but they forgot. Same will be for Usyk.
And yes, I agree, he did this one for money. The price you mention he will pay ironically, could be he now makes even more money. Rico rematch will be much bigger if it happens, so it might work well for him after all. But again, what’s the point. We already know he will beat Rico in the rematch..
Really like this man. Usyk should take his advice and retire. Legs seem not to be there anymore. He can still beat pretty much anyone even without them, but it is getting punishing having huge guys compered to him.
On the scorecards, a bit too wide for me, but yes I had it Rico 96:94 going into the 11th - not that it mattered at the end, Rico would get stopped (as he did) under any scenario.
At 233+ lbs., Usyk clearly didn't train the way he normally trains. He was roughly 11-12 lbs. above his ideal fighting weight. When a great fighter like Usyk takes an opponent seriously, he doesn't come in that overweight. if there is a lucrative rematch, and there likely will be, Usyk will come in very close to his standard 224 lbs. and obliterate the big kickboxer.
This + he wanted to use the exact plan he had for Dubois - plant his feet and go for a KO. It worked at the very end, but I believe he underprepared for Rico - kudos to Peter Fury btw. If Usyk’s legs are not fully gone, he still beats everyone with ease apart from Itauma.
I was surprised the ref didn't stop it when Rico got up and slumped against the ropes in the corner like that. He was clearly in no condition to defend himself and there was still 20 seconds left in the round.
I think the referee realised he messed up, but it was too late, and he compensated in the worst way possible. I am half glad he stopped the fight when he did, as it would be a brutal KO, but on the other hand, it is annoying having people focusing only on that. Rico was gone either way. He wouldn’t survive 20 secs in the 12th.
It's interesting Peter Fury has trained two fighters to have the Eastern European/Ukrainian style to be "paralysis by analysis" as they say.
Both Wlad and Usyk were arguably technically better than Fury and Rico but there unorthodox style and their own propensity to not want to risk throwing unless they are assured of success had both their computers short circuiting.
Agree in case of Wlad, but not really for the last night. Usyk movement was shockingly bad. Either he completely lost his legs, which is the thing that made him an ATG, or he totally misread Rico and wanted a KO. Usyk can punch, and he is actually a great puncher as seen, but that is not what makes / made him great. His amazing legs were the reason. He still has plenty of other tricks to beat pretty much everybody in the HW, but at the much higher risk. If he cannot get his movement back, he really ought to retire.
The biggest criticism I have of Usyk, is that he didn’t give Rico his well deserved props. He outboxed Usyk at his own game, constantly feinting, moving, changing levels and throwing and landing lots of punches.
Usyk just tried to play it off like he was carrying him, when he was actually getting pieced up at times. Feel like that showed he’s not quite so humble in almost defeat.
I haven’t seen that at all. He was very much giving Rico his props. Ade was asking him what was wrong, etc. and he kept saying Rico is a great fighter. He also went to his corner, and highly praised Peter. Not sure what else he could have done.
The referee made a total mess out of that last sequence. Rico was out and Usyk should have got an opportunity to finish it properly in the 11th round. Now, he did finish it, but in an ugly way where the referee stopped it when it should have not been stopped. The referee messed it up, and try to fix mistake by messing it up again.
I mean… It wouldn’t be the worst end of Usyk’s career. He would get even a better pay (probably not far off if he fights anyone else), and he get to right a “wrong”.
I would sign for it, but I cannot for only one reason and that is Agit. If Usyk gives up belts, no problem, do the rematch.
prefer Oleksandr because he took risks
gennady was risk averse camping out in a lacking 160 only great opponent being a smaller guy moving up Saul Santos
I think Golovkin was already past his best when he got a proper chance. Sturm in Germany took 5-6 years of his prime years. Once he moved to the US, it took so long for him to get any big names. I don’t think he would ever beat Ward at 168, but it would be an interesting fight when Golovkin was close to the peak of his powers.
Rico is no easy fight for anybody especially the suprise Rico that showed up last night who had ATG legs, ATG conditioning, ATG strength, ATG resolve.
True. He is by far one of the best athletes out there if nothing else. I am so impressed by his stamina. He is a real giant, but his gas tank is better than Fury’s for example. I have no doubt he would beat likes of Wilder, Chisora, Whyte, Joyce. He would abosutly demolish Makhmudov. He doesn’t beat Dubois, Itauma (obviously), and probably not Fury or AJ either, as those are big man that are way more skillful.