Shimon

Quite frankly I've always thought that calling mixed race people black is an implicitly racist thing to do. Is someone with one black parent black? what about with one black grandparent? Agreed. Its racist, pure and simple. It makes no difference what society 'labels' people as, its a matter of genetics. Besides, has nobody seen how pale Rio Ferdinand is, to say he's black is frankly absurd.

Agreed. However, from the win yesterday alone you have a lot of people now saying he is a HOFer and one of the greatest 168 pounders ever. I can dig it with the much deserved respect, but HOFer? Come on guys! (not aimed at you two chaps above) Well, there is a pretty big difference between undefeated prime Foreman, Frazier, Sonny Liston, Archie Moore, Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, Ken Norton, Bob Foster, Ellis, Lyle, Shavers and it just goes on. You can debate it, but you'd be a moron. Compare that to: Jermain Taylor, Jean Pascal, Arthur Abraham, Lucian Bute, Glen Johnson and Robin Reid. I get the respect. I really, really do. I love Froch. Funniest guy in boxing and the only good trash talker today. He's exciting, a warrior, utterly unafraid, doesn't take tune ups, fights like a madman and usually wins. But I think we've got to relax just a little on the HOF talk, or even better resume than Calzacky, Cotto. People diss Calzacky and laugh about him being considered a HOFer for being undefeated, 2 time, 2 division lineal champion with 21 defenses or something and with names like Bopkins, Roy Jones (yes, I know, but explain the difference between 39 year old Roy Jones coming off wins against Trinidad, Hanshaw and Ajamu and 43 Johnson moving down a division and coming off a win over Allen Green and a loss against Cloud)... Anyway: Bopkins Roy Jones Mikkel Kessler Chris Eubank Jeff Lacy Robin Reid Charles Brewer Byron Mitchell Richie Woodhall All champions at 168. People will rave at Froch's Arthur Abraham win, yet scoff at Byron Mitchell as if it wasn't even remotely close. 2 x WBC champion, arguably undefeated, with that awful decision against Ottke which he pretty clearly won, losing his title in the fight before Calzacky. Or Bopkins. In between Calzacky loss, he beat Tarver, Wright, Pavlik, Jones, Ornelas and Pascal. That's impressive for anyone. When looked at objectively, and regarding the great win of yesterday with a cool head, they're not really that close. Calzacky is a cunt, but he's a better cunt with a better resume. If Froch beat Ward and Kessler, then moved to 175 and won a title there, there would be a major argument for being a HOFer and better than Calzacky. Does he deserve more respect for his approach to boxing? Sure, absolutely. Has he achieved more? Absolutely not. Calzacky is a borderline HOFer with his resume and achievements. Pascal Taylor Bute Abraham Johnson Reid Not a HOF resume. Very good yes, HOF no. I'd add Dirrell but he's nearly 30, still hasn't even won a paper title and looks to be about as good and mentally strong as Judah's toe. Agree with pretty much all of that but Calzaghe being a 'cunt'? Why? Lol. He's just a humble guy from some little town in Wales, by all accounts a decent chap - and great boxer. I disagree about Froch's 'approach'. Before Super Six he'd barely fought anyone. He didnt choose to fight all these tough fights in succession, he was mandated to do so, as all of the Super Six guys were. If Calzaghe were around he'd have been involved. A lot of Froch fans seem jealous of Calzaghe and try to play down his achievements out of loyalty to their man. Froch himself recently finally conceded Calzaghe was 'the best, a brilliant Super Middleweight. Any true fan has to admire what both these guys have done.

Those are impressive names, but the fact they are ducking each other negates all else. Theyve been in the same division for 4 fcking years fighting each others leftovers!!! What they are doing is not manly at all, they practically double teamed Cotto, Mosley, Marquez, De la hoya, and refuse to fight each other. They are implementing the Klitschko strategy at welterweight. Disgusting. Incredible. When did boxing become about 'manliness'? That's ridiculous. Boxing is about money and the reason these two won't fight is they both know whoever loses will be losing a percentage of his bankability. It's a tragedy but this is a business. Do you really think these warrior's smack seven bells out of each other for our benefit?! They do it for themselves. For their bank account. All a legacy does is allow you the opportunity to stick more zeros at the end of your paycheck. Comparing Carl Froch to these two is laughable, comedy at best.

The Cobra should have faced Top Class opposition in Peter Manfreeeeeeeeeeeedo and Evans Ashira. Sheep Shagger 'Kessssssssler' Damon Hague....

The lengths that some Calzaghe fans will go to try and put down Froch is quite sad. That guy has fought the best of the best. Not once or twice either, he's been doing it back-to-back-to back for years, and he's been doing it away from home for the most part. Pascal and Bute were top names away from the super six so he wasn't tied into taking his run of opponents. The man is a credit to the sport, we should enjoy having a fighter that ducks no challenge in a sport currently filled with ducking. Nothing to do with being a 'Calzaghe fan' whatever that means. Yes, Super Six was a great idea and all the combatants should be applauded for signing up to face the best, I never said anything to the contrary. Just highlighting it's not just Froch.

yup... calzaghe defended his title against a series of bums always in his hometown. yeah, in a head to head match up, I got calzaghe beating froch, but frochs' resume *****s on calzaghe's Aside from the prediction about the outcome of a meeting, this post is exactly the kind of ignorant, hyped, fantasy borlocks that led me to write this thread. Froch needs some VICTORIES over the likes of Kessler and Ward...

Didn't read. Name someone in boxing today who has had a better run of opponents? Name someone in the history of 168 who has a better resume than Froch to date? case closed. Case closed. Without reading... (How dumb, I hope you're not a solicitor!) Pacman and Mayweather have better resumes. Easy. Read or stfu.

Ward was ****ed in the latter part...the commentators are bemusing to me, i listened to it on the radio at the time and going by there commentary thought it must have been a calzaghe/ lacy type fight but on watching it i was pleasantly suprised! Far from a beatdown.... Even frochs trainer said carl was refusing to do what was told of him in the ward fight for some reason, we all saw how good he can be when he is reigned in a bit! Let's get ward over to nottingham.. It was not even close to a calzaghe/lacy or a hopkins/pavlik type beating! I can look at all this objectively too, it seems you can't, and u only see what you want to see! Froch should stay at home from now on because he's much more pumped and focused, i was impressed.... Some good points there mate, even if I dont agree with all of them. I'm just looking at the facts, thats all. I think being a champ for ten years and unifying the division is a far mightier achievement (as well as beating Kessler). It's Hall of Fame stuff. I accept your point about the Ward/Froch fight though, it's open for debate. I dont believe Froch will ever beat Ward (although anyone can be beat) but he has a decent chance against Kessler. I think he should fight Clev, he'd wipe the floor with him and become a two-weight champ.

We both know you did read my questions though you simply don't have an answer (which is hilarious). Im a fan of Cazaghe but at the end of the day Froch has fought better opposition that is irrefutable. No mate, you're hilarious. You're a joke. 'I wont read your article, but, but... it's drivel'. Pathetic. Froch has not fought better opposition. Abraham, Taylor or Johnson are not high level opposition at 168. If you think they are we're watching a different sport. If you're going to keep spouting nonsense without any foundation (it's the kind of thing people who make statements without reading an article do) then let's leave it there, you're just embarrassing yourself. 'Peace'.

U can be a fan of calzaghe and froch u know!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHU0hCGFxAU Joe is a fan of carl. I too am a fan I never said I wasnt. Just calling for some perspective amongst all the hype!

Yes the same Mitchell. Are you seriously suggesting that a win over Mitchell allows JC's record to be comparable to Louis & Holmes? Really? I like how you commented about the other fighters I picked. What was Manfredo's great achievement? Finishing runner up to Sergio Mora in "The Contender" lol. Yes Kessler IMO was his best win. Lacy was a hypejob and BHOP was a disputed decision but fair play for getting the decision. Unless you're counting the beat down of a shot to **** Roy Jones JR? Come off it. Simple fact is Froch has/is fought/fighting the best names at 168, can the same be said of JC? What was JC's toughest run of opponents? The reference to Holmes and Louis was made in terms of number of successful title defenses. Calzaghe has 21. Put very simply, 21 successful title defenses is a tougher run. It's a legendary run. Cleaning up at 168 is a tougher run. Are Abraham, Taylor (middleweights) or Johnson (42 year old Light Heavyweight) really 'the best' at 168? Dirrell has never won a belt, so what is his reason for being included in 'the best at 168'? Do you believe Calzaghe wouldnt have beat Abraham, a 42 year old Johnson, Dirrell or a shot Jermain Taylor? He beat Kessler, who would smash all of them. The only two fighters in that who can be considered 'best' in the division are Ward and Kessler, who beat him. Focus on the facts, my friend, not the hype.

This thread is obviously a Joe Calzaghe Love In. Not at all. You just froth at the mouth as soon as you hear the 'C' Word..

Only an idiot would come on here and post a 5 page essay disrespecting froch straight after a shock beatdown of an undefeated fighter (who was ranked #1 by many ppl, had beaten/destroyed edison miranda, dominated johnson, outboxed bika etc!) The guy is what boxing is all about, constant underdog, always having to fight for recognition, fights anyone! The dude has been on the road for 3 years, fought the best fighters in the world in consecutive succession, never has a tune up, fight's his heart out and give's us fight's to die for! Froch is a man of steel, he's old school, has done it the hard way, and i respect the hell out of him.... Fights: -reid -pascal -taylor -dirrell -kessler -abraham -johnson -ward -bute and then goes home to re-tile his living room floor lol! He will no doubt be gunning for a rematch with kessler/ward again, and there are other possible names on the horizon! We now have more froch fights to come, which for me (and boxing) is only a good thing! He's just pulled off an astonishing win so stop whining! P.s I'm a calzaghe fan but even calzaghe gives carl his props bigtime now, we need to appreciate froch for what he is! A 3 time champ, and he deserves it! Too much emotion in this post mate! Boxing is about many things, not just what you define it as. I've given Froch props, you just dont like the fact I'm not getting carried away in the hype. He fought those fights because he took part in Super Six, which was kinda the point. Great boxers don't get 'Jeff Lacy'd' like Froch did at the hands of Ward. Simple as that. Focus on the facts and stop getting all emotive. That's what 'idiots' do...

OP is clearly a Calzaghe fan lol. 'Lol' at the stock 'Froch fan' reply... Clearly you're a Froch fan, as opposed to a 'boxing' fan. 'lmao'..

:rofl: Froch was not 'lacy'd' nor was he beat down! He was beaten but it was far from a beatdown! (Ward is boring as hell to watch, He couldn't finish a fighter to save his life and always looks to hold in the last rounds!) Not many elite fighters (with the exception of mayweather, marciano, calzaghe etc) go unbeaten, stop hating! I made a thread about this recently having only recently got round to watching the fight, after reading about it i was expecting some sensational schooling like a i.e hopkins vs pavlik or calzaghe vs lacy type fight going on what i have read in forum's etc however i was suprised to see it was far from it! A clear UD for ward no doubt but it certainly was no whitewash, all i saw was the younger/faster man content to rack up another points win (what struck me was that froch actually proved to be the fitter man as ward was f***ed towards the latter part of the fight) ward was clock watching and holding to buy time, froch is a man of steel, crazy stamina! Ward started well, carl began to get back into the fight midway and the latter half was fairly even with froch going for broke and ward sitting back on his laurels..froch even finished the stronger man! Don't forget carl is 35 next time out...ward is a young man. We must've watched a different fight. Froch got his face busted up and even the commentators (British) remarked at how emphatically Ward had dismissed him. It was a whitewash. I agree that Ward tired but that happens, he's still a relative novice, and Froch is a brilliant athlete. I'm not a hater, I hold Froch in high regard, just not as high as he and his fans hold him. Just calling for a sense of perspective amongst all this hype and silly talk of greatness.

The Super Six wasn't just Froch, no. They all deserve great credit, although some got it easier after top guy's were replaced. Undefeated Pascal and undefeated Bute pre and post Super Six was only Froch though. Now he wants Kessler again, likes the idea of rematching Pascal...his run has been more than just the Super Six fights and it's not stopping any time soon. Some got it easier through replacements? There were two.Glen Johnson and Allan Green and Froch fought Johnson. Ward beat Green and then Johnson TKO'd Green. So all it meant was Froch had an easier opponent in Johnson as opposed to Kessler rematch.

Drivel. Poorly written, with pretentions of journalism and the ignorance of a 16 year old learning to think for himself by putting his foot in it. I would go into detail about how ridiculous the opening post is, but I know from experience that it would be a fruitless task, with the opening poster proclaiming victory from his grave. I trust that other people have put him in his place already. Poorly written? Sorry, I thought this was a place to have casual discussions about boxing and stuff. I didn't realise all posts on here had to meet your obviously high standards. I can assure you I've no 'pretentions' of journalism or of any kind. Just expressing an opinion, albeit one that's clearly upset you. Tell you what, to stop this happening again how about I run all my future posts by you, to be scrutinised for content and style? Only if you don't mind of course. Seriously though, if only we all thought like you the world would be a much simpler place. As I said in the post, Carl Froch is already a British legend, but he hasn't met you yet. Thanks for the support, I feel I've learned something already and you did present a brilliant argument. .......

Clearly a bitter and butt hurt Calzaghe fan boy as i said im a fan of Calzaghe but im not a blind fan boy his resume has more holes in it than Swiss cheese. When its all said and done Froch will be remembered as a guy who fought the best and dodged nobody and let me tell you the majority in the boxing world will never say the same thing about Joe. Not at all, that's just an assumption of yours. Carl Froch signed a contract to fight in Super Six, yes, and so did five other fighters. They will have to be given the same credit Amir Khan and Sugar Ray Leonard both consider Calzaghe an all-time great - I assume you're not going to suggest they are not in 'the know'? Khan referred to Calzaghe as the greatest British Super Middleweight of all time. It's often said. This isnt about Calzaghe vs Froch, all the Froch fanboys always try to turn it into that. You havent read the article so wouldnt know. Dont waste your time mate, if you dont know what your commenting about. When it's all said and done, Abraham, Taylor and Johnson do not consititute a great legacy.

On paper Calzaghe should beat them but boxing don't work like that. Who knows what would have happened. Yes 21 successful defences is superb but is beating those guys really deserving of legendary status? Who on that list (at the time JC fought them) was really a threat? A serious threat. I'm not calling Froch a great by any means but in this day and age when boxers tend to find any excuse to dodge their opponent, it's refreshing to see someone like Froch who is willing and ready to fight his divisions best wherever and whenever. He fought loads of fighters who were a threat. Omar Sheika, Brewer, Mitchell (2x World Champ), Veit, Woodhall, Lacy, Kessler. Of course it's a legendary run. If being a champ for ten years, unifying a division and beating genuine Hall of Fame fighters (Hopkins, definitley, Kessler, maybe) is not a legendary career, I'd like to know what is. If you read my post, you will see that a: Froch is not unique, he's one of six fighters who signed up to fight the best (Super Six, the reason behind the 'run', not something unique he's done off his own back!) and that b: of the six names included, two were middleweights, so not the 'best at 168' and Johnson was an old, tired Light Heavyweight. The only two elite names were Kessler and Ward... He couldnt 'dodge' any fighter, none of them could because they all signed a contract to fight each other. It wasnt just 'Carl Froch' putting himself out there and making a stand.

:owned::lol1: Its just a typically lazy post. Froch getting ripped to shreds over on BBC Sport forum following his latest declaration of greatness. He is actually a bit of a kunt and will never get the adulation he desires by talking such ****.....

I don't need to read I skimmed through parts and its the same drivel i have read multiple times before. Talking of reading you obviously didn't read my question. Who in boxing has had a better "RUN" of opponents than Froch and no Pac and Mayweather have not. oh and you didn't answer the other question either who has a better resume than Froch throughout the history of the 168 division? If you cant be arsed to read then I cant be arsed to answer your dumb questions. I will say though, because you're full of ****, Calzaghe has the better resume because he cleaned up the division and won all the titles. Plus, Abraham, Taylor and Johnson are not natural 168 fighters, nor the best at 168. Calzaghe would have wiped the floor with them, emphatically.

LOL The guy who beat Manfredo, Salem, Brewer and Mitchell? C'mon bro. Mitchell was a two-time world champion who had only lost a disputed decision to Sven Ottke? You knew this before you commented, right? He also beat Kessler...yes, MIKKEL KESSLER, the guy who beat Froch? 'C'mon bro'? Lol!