Get real Floyd is getting old. He's 8 months away from being 42. Floyd fans don't get butt hurt!
Besides Victor Ortiz (don't consider it a legit KO) which I consider to be punk ass, Floyd hasn't had a TKO or KO since Hatton in 2007. His previous TKO was Sharmba Mitchell in 2005.
Yeah I know he TKO'd Conor McGregor in 2017! That wasn't a real opponent.
I for one don't count Floyd's 50-0 record.
It should have an asterisk next to it!
Rocky Marciano fought legit fighters!
Next up is Ricardo “El Finito” López. He was 51 wins, 38 KO's, 0 Losses. His only drawback was 1 Draw. So put an asterisk on him as well!
History will not judge Floyd kindly! He has to fight once more maybe even twice if he wants to be TBE!
Floyd has had one true TKO in the last 11 years.
Be careful what you wish for Floyd fans.
Floyd has nothing to prove. He is probably the best defensive fighter in the history of the sport. (And this is coming from someone who isn't exactly a fan of his)
And Marciano was a great fighter in a poor Heavyweight division. Arguably Marciano gets beaten in his prime if he was fighting in the period that had Ali/Forman/Fraiser/Norton all going for the title.
Yes Floyd has a couple of cherry picks but still history will not care unless the historian is a boxing fan with a bit of bias.
Which Floyd?? Pre 1st Retirement?? Pre Second Retirement?? Or Connor McGregor Floyd? If it was the last Floyd i don't think Floyd wins. The Pre Seconsd retirement would be close. Pre First Retirment Floyd Wins easy.
You're putting scoring on a pedestal.
If you're not blind or dumb, it's not hard.
Apparently however most people are both. Or they're too lazy to actually analyze the fight and so they just piggyback off of other people's opinions and feel validated by others like them, piggybacking off other people's piggybacks.
I would bet my nuts, that after watching the fight the first time, 75% of the people on here will never watch the full 12 rounds again, to actually decipher everything that's going on.
They instead use other people's opinions to validate their memory of the fight, which are based off of other people's opinions.
Less than 15% probably know what the **** they're actually talking about.
And yet here you are on a boxing forum instead of at ringside judging fights...:beerchug:
Absolutely not. I think the judges gave Canelo the benefit of the doubt more than they did for Golovkin. It was a close fight but I thought GGG won it. But you have to give Canelo a lot of credit for both fights with Golovkin...I mean, he showed he's a damn good fighter and tough as nails.
But that's the thing though. Fighters get the benefit of the doubt because they did better than people thought. Canelo did not have to prove anything. He is a Special Talent and has been handled VERY well.
But to get a decision because you did better than people thought you would do is not right.
I had GGG winning. But I can see the argument for Canelo if you give him EVERY Close round. I can see the draw as well. But just because Canelo went 12 twice does not mean he did enough to win. 1 Scorecard for GGG out of 6 when Canelo was out landed punch count wise in 18 out of 24 Rounds is what is wrong with the sport.
Heres one I thought of: have six judges per a fight, have each set of 3 alternate rounds, so they can look at the rounds carefully for another round. Anything to make the scoring more fair this way...I mean you could have 9 judges or 12 one per a round, whatever, the point being the judges can look carefully at the rounds, and even have a period after the fight where any contraversal rounds, very close can be rescored by all six... and the decision comes in a half hour.
you get the idea.
As long as promoters fighters trainers getba say there will be dodgy scoring. As lomg as they know who will be judging an up coming fight there exists a chance for corruption.
You automatically assume a ring judge makes more money than me lol
Never brought up money or assumed anything. Just saying oh wise all knowing boxing historian since he was 6 years old. That you are here on a boxing forum shouting from the roof tops that if people do not agree with you then they do not know what they are talking about. Instead of actually judging fights.
I just rewatched the 12th round. I scored it for Golovkin.
BUT, Canelo fought a really inspired, gutsy fight.
Is that enough reason to give him the close rounds though?
This is getting petty man.
I'll just end it with this and logoff. All I said is that it's not hard to score a fight. If you know which punches landed and which punches didn't then the winner becomes less of an opinion and more of who's keeping better score.
But then punch stats do not tie up with your scores. Because using technology we can gauge pretty fairly which punches landed and how many per fighter per round....
Anyways have a good one man.
The only way to lessen the blatant corruption is with open scoring. Would also need some kind of governing body that hold judges and other officials accountable for their actions. If a score is challenged, it would go off to an independant committee, and if they find the score to be way off, there'd be repecussions. I'm talking like the judge who scored for Canelo against Mayweather.
I agree with this 100%. Am not sure how sports in the states work when it comes to officials being responsible. But major international sports like Soccer, Rugby, Cricket all have independent wings of the sport's governing bodies who monitor the performance of match officials. I know that in soccer they have a panel of retired refs watch the performace of the officials and they have to sit through a debriefing process where the panel questions the ref.
Would be difficult with boxing since there isnt only one global governing body.
But someone needs to come up with something.
I know what I saw, and anyone that disagrees with me can't score a fight.
I've grown up my whole life surrounded by morons so I'm used to being the only guy that's right in the room sometimes.
7-5 To canelo. No other way to score it. The 5th round was the only one that might even be questionable and even then the best I can give Golovkin is a draw.
I'm not blind, I've been a student of the game since I was 6 years old, and Canelo won that fight.
We all bow down to you oh omnipotent boxing God. When did you get your certification as a judge?
why do the rules always have to change when the "boogyman" loses?
This topic has been going on for decades it's not something new thats popped up since GGG lost.
Well to discuss the physical issue of neglegiance one has to have provisional faith that competance is a desired outcome.
But there is the faith that the judges will be competent. Proving negligence is very hard since there is no independent regulatory body.
Maybe use an auditing firm to review that results of fights after the fact. And provide the results of their findings to governing bodies.
And in the case of negligence or bias that can be proved using the data available. Judge gets fined and investigate and if there are any irregularities or conflicts of interest (gifts, money, events, dinners, relationships) linked to promoters of governing bodies then action gets taken against all involved.
*cough* Cough* I am an Auditor an would gladly perform this function.
I've been to plenty of live fights and sat ringside and IMO the view kinda blows. I prefer to sit up on an angle where I can see over the ropes for a better view of all the action in the ring. The ropes definitely obstruct your view when sitting lower down.
You often see the judges ringside leaning over or trying to get a better view of the action through the ropes because they are not above where they'd be able to see everything going .
Also, you cant beat being at a fight live for the excitement but watching it on TV gives you a much better close up view of the action and better view of every punch thrown.
Imo, judges should also score a round and then hand in that score after every round and not have a tally of their score in front of them to see. That would curb any crying of someone giving a round late to get their guy back in the fight because they know the total score they have right in front of them.
Judges arent there for excitment. They are there to work. Yes they should watch in a room alone on a monitor. They should also be anonymous. Promotors fighters trainers should have no say. And they should have a strict criterea to judge.
I Don't think either of these guys will be the same after this fight.
Someone said bring back 15 rounds. I don't reckon either guy would be able to be ok after 15 rounds of what we saw on Saturday. Any other fighter would of been put down by the bombs each guy was throwing.
People use the term "Going Life or Death' when it comes to close fights. This fight was just that.
Lol @ 2 x picks for Canelo. The sad part for me is the way this cheated GGG out of making MW history.
Look I had GGG winning but it was very close. Lets also remember that most of these guys scored from home with the benefit of replays.
End of the day GGG needed to knock Canelo out. We all knew this. We were having this same argument after the Jacobs fight only that time they were saying Jacobs got robbed.
Lol @ 2 x picks for Canelo. The sad part for me is the way this cheated GGG out of making MW history.
Look I had GGG winning but it was very close. Lets also remember that most of these guys scored from home with the benefit of replays.
End of the day GGG needed to knock Canelo out. We all knew this. We were having this same argument after the Jacobs fight only that time they were saying Jacobs got robbed.
If you need somebody else to make your opinion for you, you don't deserve to have one.
I don't care how many people say Golovkin won, I know Canelo did.
Yes we all know he did because that is the official result...
It will go down as Canelo Alvarez Def Gennady Golovkin MD for the WBA (Super) WBC IBO Middleweight Title. Thats all that will be seen 40 years from now.
And like you said no matter what people say or do nothing will change that.
Was a close fight we all have our biases and it could of gone either way.
Was on of the best fights in recent memory and gave people their money's worth.
Was i upset that GGG didn't win? Sure. Was it a robbery? No. Would GGG of ever gotten a close decision against Canelo? No. Did GGG Know this? Yes.
It is a sad fact that sometimes the better performance does not get rewarded because Judging is subjective. Is there a way to remove the Subjectivity from Judging sports? Not that i can think of.
This is about every media outlets scores so can we just drop this now??
Harold Lederman (HBO Sports): 116-112 Golovkin
Brian Campbell (CBS sports): 116-112 Golovkin
Dan Rafael (ESPN): 114-114 draw
Stephen A. Smith (ESPN): Golovkin won
Arash Markazi (ESPN): 114-114 draw
Brett Okamoto (ESPN): 114-114 draw
Teddy Atlas - Golovkin won
Salvador Rodríguez (ESPN Mexico): 114-114 draw
Eduardo Lamazón (Televisa): 116-112 Golovkin
Gareth A Davies (The Telegraph): 116-112 Golovkin
Josh Peter (USA Today): 115-113 Golovkin
Sports Illustrated: 114-114 draw
Dylan Hernandez (LA Times): 115-113 Golovkin
Lance Pugmire (La Times): 114-114 draw
BoxingScene: 114-114 draw
Chris Mannix (Yahoo! Sports): 115-113 Golovkin
Kevin Iole (Yahoo! Sports): 114-114 draw
The Guardian: 116-112 Golovkin
Joe DePaolo (Washington Post): 115-113 Golovkin
Mike Coppinger (Ring Magazine): 114-114 draw
Douglass Fischer (Ring Magazine): 114-114 draw
Mike Baca II (Ring Magazine and Undisputed Champion Network): 115-113 Golovkin
Al Bernstein (Showtime Sports): Golovkin won
Sherdog.com: 116-112 Golovkin
Jai Bednall (news.com.au): 115-113 Golovkin
Brian Mazique (Forbes): 114-114 draw
Adam Abramowitz (Ring Magazine and SN Boxing): 115-113 Golovkin
Tom Craze (Bad Left Hook): 116-112 Golovkin
Fraser Coffeen (Bloody Elbow): 115-113 Golovkin
Anton Tabuena (Bloody Elbow): 115-113 Golovkin
The Associated Press: 114-114 draw
Adam Caparell (Complex Sports): 116-112 Golovkin
Bill Simmons (HBO and The Ringer): 114-114 draw
Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News): 116-112 Golovkin
Andreas Hale (Sporting News): Golovkin won
Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly): Canelo won
Michael Montero (MonteroOnBoxing): 115-113 Golovkin
Matt Christie (Boxing News): 115-114 Golovkin
George Willis (New York Post): 114-114 draw
Gary Melo (SportsNet Canada): Golovkin won
Below The Belt Podcast: 115-113 Golovkin
World Boxing News: 115-113 Golovkin
Jeff Powell (Daily Mail): 116-113 Golovkin
Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub TV): 114-114 draw
Michelle Rosado (Raging Babe): 115-113 Canelo
Michelle Joy Phelps (Behind the Gloves): 115-113 Golovkin
Lennox Lewis: Golovkin won by 2 rounds
Fight Nights: 115-113 Golovkin
Michael Woods (NYFights.com): two point edge for Golovkin
Dieter Kurtenbach (San Jose Mercury News and the East Bay Times): Golovkin won by 3 rounds
Rafael G (the Fight City): 116-112 Golovkin
34 for GGG, 2 for Canelo, 15 for Draw
115-113 either way i can see. 114-114 totally plausable.
However the difference is that it would be a lot easier to give GGG the close rounds (because of activity) where as to give Canelo the close rounds you really have to think about it. In other words you need to debate and REALLY find a reason to give Canelo the round. Did he hit the flashier shots in those close rounds?? Sure. Did he out land GGG in those close rounds? No. How many jabs = a power punch??
No he didn't. He did **** all. He walked forward but in terms of scoring a boxing match, that doesn't mean anything.
Use that mass in your skull friend.
Sorry the double negative in your reply along with the total fallacy of your statement threw me off.
Fact canelo out landed GGG in power punches in exactly 7 of the 12 rounds. Also outlanded GGG in body shots, uppercuts as well as power shots. Literally the only punch stat GGG outlanded Canelo is jabs. But he missed a career high amount of jabs and had one of his lowest completion rate in his jabs for his career. He outlanded canelo in total because he threw so many jabs but he was made useless in everything else. And even the jabs statistically he had his worst night ever with this punch.
Even his jab wasn't landing clean watch replays most deflected or grazes canelo. Canelo landed more clean shots more hard shots.
As you just stated GGG outlanded Canelo total in 10 of the 12 rounds.
Here is where commenters on here lose credebility.
Canelo out landed Lara in powershots in 10 of thier 12 rounds and by double digits and people say Lara got robbed because he outlanded Canelo total in 7 rounds yet Canelo threw 30 odd more punches total. So the busier fighter got the nod right???
Against Trout Canelo outlanded Trout in powershots in 6 of the rounds but trout outlanded him total in 7 and people here say Trout got robbed. Again Canelo out landed Trout in power shots in double digit figures.
Canelo outlands GGG in powershots by 4. 7 rounds. but is outlanded total in 10!!! and out landed Canelo by 50 while throwing a 100 more punches total.
Are you freaking kidding me??
So you are saying that 4 power punches = more than 50 normal punches???
You have a fighter that worked harder. Came forward. Stayed behind his jab (what you are taught day 1 of boxing). Outlanded his opponent did almost everything right and you still do not give him the fight??
Please your bias is showing. And it is embarressing.
So Canelo lands 4 more power shots than GGG thats why he wins the fight?
"Just because he came forward does not mean he won the round"
You making it seem like he wasn't doing anything coming forward. Yes he missed a lot. He out landed Canelo total. So he was coming forward. Throwing and Landing more (Activity).
Had it 115-113 to Golovkin. 114-114 plausible. 115-113 Canelo if you gift him a middle round. 1-3 Canelo (One of those goes either way) 4-9 Golovkin. 10 and 12 Alvarez and 11 GGG
So once again your following what other's regurgitate apparently!
So you score fights on what you "think" landed but disguise it as you know from compubox?!
Interesting...answer me this!
If your in a fight and you throw more and it lands but not effectively but the other guy is snapping your head back with harder shots while making you miss as well...who would you rather be?
See you boxing fan casuals have the audacity to speak on boxing as if you know anything about the sweet science!
You admit Canelo hitting GGG while making him miss(counter punching) which is a big scoring criteria while you contradict yourself comparing Canelo with Rigo/Lara which coincide with Canelo's style(hit and dont get hit)
How in the hell did Canelo make GGG miss 70% of his punches and gets no credit for that and you have the impudence to claim it was "ineffective defense" smfh!
You say Canelo's defensive minded but yet made GGG miss nearly EVERYTHING including his Sunday's punch!
Floyd controlled distance by using "FOOTWORK"....I'll say it again so you can catch it...Footwork!
He would step outta range to get a better position for his own range and gain better distance to land counters....ring a bell yet?!
He would circle his opponents to make them reset their rhythm and back up to walk his opponents....well you know the "aggressors" into counter punches...still not ringing a bell?!!
Dictating pace means you fighting to your strengths!
I'll say it again, was it a "big drama show" or a boxing match that favors the counter puncher!
You score for fighters that come forward an that throw and miss punches or that lands on gloves or even grazed but not for the guy's that countered with the harder punches (more effective) and defense(hit n don't get hit), and the man who did what he wanted(when he wants to box in the middle, fight close quarters, off the ropes or on the move he did it=ring generalship)
GGG wants a war and toe to toe fight and Canelo made him follow him to counter him up and down with the harder shots and took a rest when he wanted and GGG never capitalized to where it looked like a "big drama show"...you know a knockout or even a knockdown!
So a jab, moving forward , taking more punishment and throwing more, landing less effective punches = winning??
Dude just please stop watching boxing, it's not for you!
Go watch bar room brawls at your local bar at 2am in the morning if you think boxing is about who comes forward, throws more, takes more and is aggressive! SMFH
Canelo missed 70% of his punches too. So you not the aggressor and still miss 70%. How can you award a fight to a guy who throws less and misses just as much??
Logic is lost on this forum sometimes.
So Canelo couldn't put GGG away so they jump back on the Ward doh argumemt.
Lets have some prespective shall we. At LHW Ward murders Golovkin. At SMW thats A close fight. At 164 as was part of the Negotiations Ward is a zombie and gets murdered.
So yes Golovkin does have every possibility of beating Ward. And 2-3 years ago at 164 or SMW Golovkin did have an edge.
That ship has sailed move on and stop clinging to a guy 2 divisions up to finaly stop GGG.
Should either be GGG (So there can be an undisputed champion) or Canelo so when the GGG vs Canelo rematch happens it will be for the Undisputed championship.
We already saw Lil’g bigger than Alvarez and 5lb lighter than Jacobs in the ring. Arias would be puny in size compared to Golovkin as well.
“But 154-168 is ez fomi” - Lil’G
Yes you are right Golovkin was soooo much bigger on fight night that Jacobs and Alvarez. Arn't you clever. Well done to you. would you like a lollipop? Some vinager solution to spray at the Chemtrails in the air? The filter on your taps that take the chemicals out the water that have been turning frogs gay? Such a clever boy. Good job...