David-Leo Santa Cruz PPV numbers

If you’re going to make claims then it’s on you to back it up. You must be real slow to think that saying “the data behind what I’m claiming is freely available” somehow legitimizes your claims. Anybody can say that lol. I’m not checking for sht that you’re saying. You said it so it’s up to you to back it up. You haven’t backed up your claims because you’re just talking out of your a$$ from a biased perspective. It’s like I said in the first post. You don’t believe the numbers because you don’t want to believe them. I don’t know why you’re going on and on tryna oak to yourself as “objective”. Lol...first off i mentioned some of my claims in other posts, I'll be happy to do it with you in more detail. But second you said I'm bias and not objective, I mentioned the numbers are clearly available because that's what my conclusion is based on and I assume you accept that I have no power to change or alter them. And third, I didn't ask you to check anything, I asked if you know what the publicly available PPV numbers are for boxing PPVs in the pre and post Mayweather era and explained that we can go from there. If you don't know those numbers, then all you have to say is "no, I don't". I can then layout a more detailed case. I assumed you already knew those numbers since you disagreed with me and assumed the only way I can come to the conclusion I have is if I'm bias. If you do know those numbers, then I can skip certain explanations and go str8 to the point and you may then proceed with your counter argument which of course must include data related to PPV numbers to be objective. There's really no reason for all this unnecessary aggression and malice you keep attributing to my claim.

It has nothing to do with anti-PBC anything and the data behind everything I'm claiming is freely available. Have you even actually checked the performance of boxing PPV's in the pre-Mayweather and post -Mayweather eras? You can even check the average recent ratings of fighters who've headlined PPVs. If so, are you really arguing that PBC PPV's do not consistently perform way better than non-PBC PPV's historically? All you have to do is say yes I've checked and no I don't believe PBC's PPV numbers are unusual or they are unusual but here's why PBC is so successful and then we can proceed logically from there.If you’re going to make claims then it’s on you to back it up. You must be real slow to think that saying “the data behind what I’m claiming is freely available” somehow legitimizes your claims. Anybody can say that lol. I’m not checking for sht that you’re saying. You said it so it’s up to you to back it up. You haven’t backed up your claims because you’re just talking out of your a$$ from a biased perspective. It’s like I said in the first post. You don’t believe the numbers because you don’t want to believe them. I don’t know why you’re going on and on tryna oak to yourself as “objective”.

Thats a baseless argument rooted in nothing but your biased anti-pbc perspective. You’ve provided no factual information backing up anything you’re saying. You’re just babbling on saying nothing. You’re just a pbc hater. There’s nothing objective about you. It has nothing to do with anti-PBC anything and the data behind everything I'm claiming is freely available. Have you even actually checked the performance of boxing PPV's in the pre-Mayweather and post -Mayweather eras? You can even check the average recent ratings of fighters who've headlined PPVs. If so, are you really arguing that PBC PPV's do not consistently perform way better than non-PBC PPV's historically? All you have to do is say yes I've checked and no I don't believe PBC's PPV numbers are unusual or they are unusual but here's why PBC is so successful and then we can proceed logically from there.

Right, you not reading all of my post is of course what I meant. Reading a piece of it does not somehow guarantee that you fully understand the entirety of my argument as you seem to be alluding that it does. And no, this is not about sources at all. As I said, that is a strawman argument that has nothing to do with my proposition. I believe the PPV numbers are unlikely to be true because they follow PBC's trend of massive deviation from non-PBC PPV performances historically. Although PPV sources are usually not official, let's say one was official and they said that Tank's PPV sold 100 million PPVs, about 25x May vs PAC numbers. Shall I simply believe it because it was an official source that said so? Of course not, I'm unlikely to believe it because it deviates exponentially from the historical trend of PPV performances. Hence my doubt has nothing to do with the source itself but the data regarding the trend of PPV performances historically. And PBC deviates from this trend on the regular basis and seems to be the only organization that ever has so regularly. Hence being an outlier and so I am doubtful.Thats a baseless argument rooted in nothing but your biased anti-pbc perspective. You’ve provided no factual information backing up anything you’re saying. You’re just babbling on saying nothing. You’re just a pbc hater. There’s nothing objective about you.

I didn’t say that I didn’t read your post I said I didn’t read all of it. I also didn’t call you any names. You’re either a bald faced liar or you’re the one who didn’t read my post lol. This IS about sources because you have none. You have no inside information to refute reports about the ppv buys and that’s been my point this whole time. You say that these numbers aren’t true and it’s based on nothing other than you not wanting to believe that they’re true. To be objective you would have to have information/facts that contradict the reports. You have nothing other than biased speculation. Right, you not reading all of my post is of course what I meant. Reading a piece of it does not somehow guarantee that you fully understand the entirety of my argument as you seem to be alluding that it does. And no, this is not about sources at all. As I said, that is a strawman argument that has nothing to do with my proposition. I believe the PPV numbers are unlikely to be true because they follow PBC's trend of massive deviation from non-PBC PPV performances historically. Although PPV sources are usually not official, let's say one was official and they said that Tank's PPV sold 100 million PPVs, about 25x May vs PAC numbers. Shall I simply believe it because it was an official source that said so? Of course not, I'm unlikely to believe it because it deviates exponentially from the historical trend of PPV performances. Hence my doubt has nothing to do with the source itself but the data regarding the trend of PPV performances historically. And PBC deviates from this trend on the regular basis and seems to be the only organization that ever has so regularly. Hence being an outlier and so I am doubtful.

Lol...I love your "I didn't read your post" combined with "your talking out of your a$$", a conclusion that's definitely valid since you didn't read my post after all. You then created a strawman argument about sources which has nothing to do with my proposition. And once again name calling is not a counter argumentI didn’t say that I didn’t read your post I said I didn’t read all of it. I also didn’t call you any names. You’re either a bald faced liar or you’re the one who didn’t read my post lol. This IS about sources because you have none. You have no inside information to refute reports about the ppv buys and that’s been my point this whole time. You say that these numbers aren’t true and it’s based on nothing other than you not wanting to believe that they’re true. To be objective you would have to have information/facts that contradict the reports. You have nothing other than biased speculation.

Actually it's convenient for Tank. He can hide behind Uncle Floyd and Uncle Al while fighting no-hopers. Who is he going to do big numbers with if he doesn't fight any of those fighters in the coming years? Gary Russell Jr. is too small. Farmer? That guy is a joke, he has absolutely no shot at beating him. I don’t disagree with any of that. I don’t see how deals get done for Loma or Teo. Arum just burned Haymon and Wilder so I don’t see a TR deal happening. The best case is a deal with Oscar but how bad is that blood? Oscar did try and sue Haymon. Maybe Haney but I don’t know if there’s any money in that fight right now.

Your thousand word essay means nothing lol. Couldn’t even make half way thru. You’re in no position to refute the reports on the ppv buys. You have no inside information you’re just talking out of your a$$. Lol...I love your "I didn't read your post" combined with "your talking out of your a$$", a conclusion that's definitely valid since you didn't read my post after all. You then created a strawman argument about sources which has nothing to do with my proposition. And once again name calling is not a counter argument

A lot of you are so stupid it’s funny lol. And you aint no pimp, my nig.ga, so get off my nuts and get off yo back.

Lol...you absolutely can use probably when discussing facts as is done with basically the entire theory of statistics. And I of course didn't say they'd all be down due to a pandemic, I said probably due to the number of job losses and lower US GDP. It is simply a fact there is less money available for disposable income in our economy overall due to the pandemic. Now you argue that less people going out is a reason why they may buy more in a pandemic, perhaps. But at $75 per view combined with the lower disposable income, as well as the fact the more places are opening up plus the same, perhaps even more tempting now, illegal streaming that has hurt ppv sales for years plus the lack of promotional build up due to pandemic, I argue massively offsets any bump that might come from less bars being open for PPV. Now yes that assertion will require polling research as would your assertion but that's my take on the facts. And historically selling out events is not indicative of strong PPV sales because tickets prices simply change to ensure a sold out event. Also historically lower weight fighters haven't been huge ppv draws compared to fighters welter and above, again just a fact. And now Tank does it in his first PPV amid a pandemic at $75 against Santa Cruz? But historically, how would you rate the commonalty of a super featherweight fighter selling 250k PPVs that, in your opinion, is a around or close to Tanks level of popularity for what might be considered a relatively high price for a sports ppv of the era? Would you say it is fairly common, rare or normal? Your honest opinion, there's no right or wrong answer. And as my argument also hinges on the trend of other such occurrences with PBC, we can do this for each PPV I claim demonstrates a statistical outlier and you can then either explain why they're not outliers, as in they've happened before, or explain the unique conditions that led to such outliers in favor of PBC. But first we can start with Tank. And not that I really need to respond to your subjectivity argument, but I have nothing against Tank. I like him but that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore any PPV numbers of his that continue a trend of statistical outliers that is unique to PBC. Your thousand word essay means nothing lol. Couldn’t even make half way thru. You’re in no position to refute the reports on the ppv buys. You have no inside information you’re just talking out of your a$$.

Okay, sorry but you are all over the place. Why are you comparing UK PPV numbers to US PPV numbers? Bringing up Joshua here is not relevant at all. And saying Tank's PPV revenue surpasses that makes no sense since the PPV price is so much more stateside. Tank's PPV revenue isn't surpassing Joshua vs Klitschko or damn near all his fights after he became champion. Cool, you don't believe the numbers. That's fine. Just leave it at that, no need to bring in fighters from the UK. You just can't believe that Tank is out doing GGG vs non-Canelo opponents or Ward vs Kovalev. No problem. No problem, we'll agree to disagree. I'm only providing my reasoning for it. And I'm bringing in UK numbers because you can absolutely compare them by virtue of the concept of a weight function which is done is statistics all the time. Boxing is arguably a more popular niche sport in the UK with PPVs for a cheaper price and a lower population. It doesn't take a lot of data to get a general idea of what to expect from UK PPVs in way you can then compare to US. And Tank generating more ppv revenue against Cruz than someone like Joshua is statistically a huuuge outlier. I won't pretend to know the entire history of boxing PPVs but I'm willing to bet not only has it never been done, nothing's ever even come close. If it were just that one, no problem. You could argue some sort of perfect storm of circumstances occurred. But that trend happens regularly with PBC fighters. All non-PBC US and UK PPVs, follow a relatively familiar trend with few outliers. That of course acts as a baseline for comparison. And it's only PBC fights that constantly deviate massively from that baseline.

Joshua vs Whyte sold about 420,000 and the ppv gate was around $11,000,000. Tanks supposed numbers surpass that easily in terms of the ppv revenue and not just that Joshua fight either. And was not Ward vs Kovalev heavily promoted too? Golovkin vs Lemeuix or Brook? Joshua vs Whyte? Canelo vs Lara or Angulo in Spence's case? You're only saying that was expected because you keep comparing to other PBC numbers, which is exactly my point. If compare Tanks or Spence's numbers relative to what you feel was/is their level of popularity at the time of their respective PPVs, and there are empirical ways to measure that too, to non-PBC fighter PPVs, what Tank and Spence managed to do is practically unheard of historically. And it's not just them, it's a trend with PBC fighters. And the Charlo bros fight is less inflated but also inflated for sure. Okay, sorry but you are all over the place. Why are you comparing UK PPV numbers to US PPV numbers? Bringing up Joshua here is not relevant at all. And saying Tank's PPV revenue surpasses that makes no sense since the PPV price is so much more stateside. Tank's PPV revenue isn't surpassing Joshua vs Klitschko or damn near all his fights after he became champion. Cool, you don't believe the numbers. That's fine. Just leave it at that, no need to bring in fighters from the UK. You just can't believe that Tank is out doing GGG vs non-Canelo opponents or Ward vs Kovalev. No problem.

I'm not sure where the Tank and Joshua comparison comes from and what you mean when you say they do similar PPV numbers? Joshua does far more in the UK. The Charlo PPV is a PBC event and that one according to all reports did barely 100-125k. Spence vs Garcia was very well promoted and generated a good amount of buzz. FOX did a great job promoting it and Spence has a huge backing from the Cowboys which helps him. It is not crazy at all to believe Tank just did 200-225k against LSC. Everyone expected this number, if not even a bit more. Joshua vs Whyte sold about 420,000 and the ppv gate was around $11,000,000. Tanks supposed numbers surpass that easily in terms of the ppv revenue and not just that Joshua fight either. And was not Ward vs Kovalev heavily promoted too? Golovkin vs Lemeuix or Brook? Joshua vs Whyte? Canelo vs Lara or Angulo in Spence's case? You're only saying that was expected because you keep comparing to other PBC numbers, which is exactly my point. If compare Tanks or Spence's numbers relative to what you feel was/is their level of popularity at the time of their respective PPVs, and there are empirical ways to measure that too, to non-PBC fighter PPVs, what Tank and Spence managed to do is practically unheard of historically. And it's not just them, it's a trend with PBC fighters. And the Charlo bros fight is less inflated but also inflated for sure.

Other so called reports, no official statement as usual, had him trending between 250k - 300k. And Golovkin vs Lemeuix and Ward vs Kovalev did similar gates with nowhere near those sales and were much bigger fights with much more promotion and not during a pandemic, not even sure they were both $75 either. It's of course possible for sure Tank is capable of pulling those numbers but it is simply a part of an ongoing trend of outlier PPV numbers from PBC PPVs. In Errol Spence's first PPV, he did better numbers than Canelo vs Lara and Angelo at a higher price. That's almost impossible to believe and there's more examples like that. And no other US PPVs in recent memory not by PBC has even come close to the majority of PBC's recent numbers even when they're much bigger fights. PPV gate wise, Tank is not even too far off from Joshua PPV numbers, if not having surpassed some of them. It simply doesn't add up as to how PBC alone is always pulling off some PPV miracle non-PBC organizations have rarely been able to do now or in the past. I'm not sure where the Tank and Joshua comparison comes from and what you mean when you say they do similar PPV numbers? Joshua does far more in the UK. The Charlo PPV is a PBC event and that one according to all reports did barely 100-125k. Spence vs Garcia was very well promoted and generated a good amount of buzz. FOX did a great job promoting it and Spence has a huge backing from the Cowboys which helps him. It is not crazy at all to believe Tank just did 200-225k against LSC. Everyone expected this number, if not even a bit more.

Convenient how you name all the fighters not signed with PBC. Actually it's convenient for Tank. He can hide behind Uncle Floyd and Uncle Al while fighting no-hopers. Who is he going to do big numbers with if he doesn't fight any of those fighters in the coming years? Gary Russell Jr. is too small. Farmer? That guy is a joke, he has absolutely no shot at beating him.

Broner could fight, he just lost his discipline and hunger. Tank gets hit a lot. So far he has fought opponents with no power or past prime. If he fights Haney, Teo, Loma, or even Shakur he gets worked. Convenient how you name all the fighters not signed with PBC.

Again, nothing on the bold is “objective”. You’re clearly biased against tank and pbc and that’s the root of your stance here. “Tank pulling off Canelo numbers despite being way less popular as well the fact that sales would probably be less due to a pandemic” You don’t even know what a “fact” is dude. You don’t use words like “probably” when discussing facts. It’s not a fact that ppv sales will all be down during this pandemic. That doesn’t even make logical sense seeing as how people still can’t attend fights or gather in bars/restaurants for viewing parties. It would make sense that more ppl would opt to buy a boxing ppv now because of those factors. Tank has already shown that he’s a draw by headlining sold out events so I don’t see how it’s impossible that those numbers are true. You haven’t made any objective logical arguments. You’re just blindly hating. Your position isn’t based on anything except your biased personal feelings. Lol...you absolutely can use probably when discussing facts as is done with basically the entire theory of statistics. And I of course didn't say they'd all be down due to a pandemic, I said probably due to the number of job losses and lower US GDP. It is simply a fact there is less money available for disposable income in our economy overall due to the pandemic. Now you argue that less people going out is a reason why they may buy more in a pandemic, perhaps. But at $75 per view combined with the lower disposable income, as well as the fact the more places are opening up plus the same, perhaps even more tempting now, illegal streaming that has hurt ppv sales for years plus the lack of promotional build up due to pandemic, I argue massively offsets any bump that might come from less bars being open for PPV. Now yes that assertion will require polling research as would your assertion but that's my take on the facts. And historically selling out events is not indicative of strong PPV sales because tickets prices simply change to ensure a sold out event. Also historically lower weight fighters haven't been huge ppv draws compared to fighters welter and above, again just a fact. And now Tank does it in his first PPV amid a pandemic at $75 against Santa Cruz? But historically, how would you rate the commonalty of a super featherweight fighter selling 250k PPVs that, in your opinion, is a around or close to Tanks level of popularity for what might be considered a relatively high price for a sports ppv of the era? Would you say it is fairly common, rare or normal? Your honest opinion, there's no right or wrong answer. And as my argument also hinges on the trend of other such occurrences with PBC, we can do this for each PPV I claim demonstrates a statistical outlier and you can then either explain why they're not outliers, as in they've happened before, or explain the unique conditions that led to such outliers in favor of PBC. But first we can start with Tank. And not that I really need to respond to your subjectivity argument, but I have nothing against Tank. I like him but that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore any PPV numbers of his that continue a trend of statistical outliers that is unique to PBC.

Yes obviously the no chance part was my opinion. The objective part was my comparison between Tank pulling off Canelo numbers despite being way less popular as well the fact that sales would probably be less due to a pandemic and the price of the ppv is higher and of course sales are always expected to go down when the price goes higher. And then there's the trend of the outlier ppv performances from PBC compared to non-PBC organizations in the modern era. An objective counter argument would involve showing how Tank or PBC's ppv numbers are not an outlier or if they are, explaining why. Again, nothing on the bold is “objective”. You’re clearly biased against tank and pbc and that’s the root of your stance here. “Tank pulling off Canelo numbers despite being way less popular as well the fact that sales would probably be less due to a pandemic” You don’t even know what a “fact” is dude. You don’t use words like “probably” when discussing facts. It’s not a fact that ppv sales will all be down during this pandemic. That doesn’t even make logical sense seeing as how people still can’t attend fights or gather in bars/restaurants for viewing parties. It would make sense that more ppl would opt to buy a boxing ppv now because of those factors. Tank has already shown that he’s a draw by headlining sold out events so I don’t see how it’s impossible that those numbers are true. You haven’t made any objective logical arguments. You’re just blindly hating. Your position isn’t based on anything except your biased personal feelings.

There was nothing objective about anything you said. It was a bunch baseless BS hate portrayed as “speculation”. You literally started off saying “no chance these ppv numbers are accurate” but that’s objective? lol. You have no idea what you’re talking about. You sound like a clown. Yes obviously the no chance part was my opinion. The objective part was my comparison between Tank pulling off Canelo numbers despite being way less popular as well the fact that sales would probably be less due to a pandemic and the price of the ppv is higher and of course sales are always expected to go down when the price goes higher. And then there's the trend of the outlier ppv performances from PBC compared to non-PBC organizations in the modern era. An objective counter argument would involve showing how Tank or PBC's ppv numbers are not an outlier or if they are, explaining why.

Initial reports are over 200k to 225k. Not sure where you are getting 300k from. And Tank was #1 in google trends the night of the fight. He also does much better ratings than anyone else on SHO and his live gate against Gamboa surpassed 2M....Which not many fighters can do stateside. Other so called reports, no official statement as usual, had him trending between 250k - 300k. And Golovkin vs Lemeuix and Ward vs Kovalev did similar gates with nowhere near those sales and were much bigger fights with much more promotion and not during a pandemic, not even sure they were both $75 either. It's of course possible for sure Tank is capable of pulling those numbers but it is simply a part of an ongoing trend of outlier PPV numbers from PBC PPVs. In Errol Spence's first PPV, he did better numbers than Canelo vs Lara and Angelo at a higher price. That's almost impossible to believe and there's more examples like that. And no other US PPVs in recent memory not by PBC has even come close to the majority of PBC's recent numbers even when they're much bigger fights. PPV gate wise, Tank is not even too far off from Joshua PPV numbers, if not having surpassed some of them. It simply doesn't add up as to how PBC alone is always pulling off some PPV miracle non-PBC organizations have rarely been able to do now or in the past.