Boxing fans don't know how difficult it is to do what Lomachenko did...

You can't compare Ramirez losing to a fighter who is 4-2-2 and ranked like #450 in the world with Lomachenko losing a SD to a world champion in Salido. Robeisy Ramirez was not fast tracked at all! That was my main point. Let's see if Robeisy Ramirez fights someone on Gary Russel Jr's level next? Right...I don't think so. And how I personally scored the fights has nothing to do with excuses. If you think he lost the fight with Salido that's ok, but not everyone saw it the same way man. You could argue that it's even more impressive to come back from a loss like that and win a world title when you are 1-1 vs one of the most highly touted prospects. Everything I stated about the fights are true. Salido did throw lowblows all-night and he did come in overweight at the weigh in to have a weight advantage. You can keep your opinion and I'll keep mine ok? Ramirez was being fast tracked. He, like Loma, turned pro at such a late age after stellar amateur careers. When this happens promoters want to get them in title fights as soon as possible. The only people who don’t think Loma lost to Salido have a strange agenda. He lost. Nothing was controversial about the loss. Nothing to be ashamed about or to be explained. It’s not a case of opinion. I will say his loss is much more understandable than Ramirez. Ramirez was complete unprepared and looked it while Loma was just took a few rounds to get adjusted to the dirty tactics and rough brawling. I don’t think anyone underestimated what Loma accomplished. Ramirez will likely not fight a champion his next fight because he lost. Had he won he may have gotten a title fight early but probably not as quick as Loma.

I'm not to familiar with Lomachenko. What's a good fight I could watch. I tried looking at a highlight reel on YouTube but it wasn't that great. Gary Russel is a good fighter, was top prospect and he made him look on a level below. Lingers made Loma look human and beatable, which is unusal since Salido fight. Pretty even fight until the tko. Rigo fight was boring to watch and the haters say he outweighed him. If you watch the fight, you’ll see he took Rigo’s ‘0’ by using footwork, speed, timing and strategy. Had nothing to do with Loma’s size advantage. Rigo quit on his stool...there’s no way to spin it.

I'm not to familiar with Lomachenko. What's a good fight I could watch. I tried looking at a highlight reel on YouTube but it wasn't that great.

Or maybe Ramirez isn't really that good..... If Floyd had the same background as Loma you don't think he'd be able to do the same thing? Different horses for different courses. Floyd’s skill set and IQ is suited to the pro ranks. Floyd is calculated and likes time and slower pace to figure his opponent out, set traps, control pace, adjust and think strategy. There is no time to do such things when fighting 3x3’s. Perhaps the reason he never did very well in the am’s. An experienced Floyd dealt with a seasoned vet in Hatton very well on the inside. It’s possible Floyd could do something similar to Salido in his second pro fight. That’s far more likely than winning 2 gold medals and several world amateur championships. Obviously Ramirez is talented, no one gets 2x Olympic gold by luck or being mediocre. He simply provided another example that pro is vastly different to am’s in style and strategy. I think that’s the OP’s point though.. Loma being able to excel in the pro’s and am’s is pretty special. Salido fight he was going for a record/glory.., what us boxing fans want! Nothing great ever got achieved by critics. He almost made that new record in narrowly losing to Salido. I commend him for at least trying to be great.

https://i.imgur.com/wOQGXwn.gif Bumchenko dove right into Salidoe's wastebasket when Orlandoe dropped the WBO into the trash. This is almost disturbing man. You’re a waste of life.

Or maybe Ramirez isn't really that good..... If Floyd had the same background as Loma you don't think he'd be able to do the same thing? Tough to say, Floyd needed time to really adapt but he was also younger back then. I think so, but like I said...only the special fighters can do such a thing and Floyd is special.

Im still impressed by thinking about how Loma started as a pro. Its just very impressive on any scale. Any fighter that is good and exciting gets hyped and with Loma i think its justified because his style can be eye candy. But i dont know how far he can go given how he fights. He likes to get close and slip shots. I see him getting rocked at the least by a big shot soon. My take on his loss is that it was legit. He didnt know how to deal with the low blows. And he got going too late. I think he said the same. Plus his loss means little to me. Im just enjoying his career.

They don't wear headgear in the olympics anymore. Also, Ramirez fought in the WSB just like Loma did. He had more fights too as he fought with the Cubans for two seasons. Yes, Ramirez has a World Series of Boxing record of 14-2 (3 KOs)...

I don't think we would see threads like this started if it were not for the other threads that bring up the Salido fight. Some guys use terms like clown, bum, hype-job, paper champion, etc etc. They go a little overboard, and of course some are just straight trolling. I'm not sure that losing isn't such a big deal. It depends on the overall resume and the context surrounding each L and each W. Not all W's are created equal and neither are all L's created equal. There's razor thin decisions, there's dominant performances, vicious knockouts, biased robberies, and a number of variable controversies. Some guys with undefeated records have fought all tomato cans and just haven't faced anybody yet. Others WERE undefeated until they lost to elite competition. Apparently, the "experts" have put Loma's L in proper context, because they still rate him P4P and whatnot. Who knows, if not for that Salido decision Lomachenko might not be the pro fighter he is today. Salido's tactics may have worked back then, but the concensus is that Loma has evolved since, and understands how to diffuse that style. So, an L can be very important, it just depends how it is spun. Like you said, the fast track runs more of a risk and is reserved for the special ones. Those boxers are expected to evolve much much faster than most. I personally think Loma deserves more props than condemnation, for overcoming the Salido loss. The only time an L needs defending or explaining is when somebody takes it out of context or defines an entire career by it. Just my perspective. Peace. :beerchug: Truth, bro.

As for Loma/salido- many posters have posted the opinion that the way to beat a superior boxer ( specifically Floyd )is to make it an ugly brawl and fight dirty. Salido followed that blueprint and won fairly. The bottom line is whether we are talking Loma or Ramirez, top rank fast tracked them and they both got beat early in their careers. If losing isn’t a big deal then we need not keep trying to excuse away losses like this from these 2. I don't think we would see threads like this started if it were not for the other threads that bring up the Salido fight. Some guys use terms like clown, bum, hype-job, paper champion, etc etc. They go a little overboard, and of course some are just straight trolling. I'm not sure that losing isn't such a big deal. It depends on the overall resume and the context surrounding each L and each W. Not all W's are created equal and neither are all L's created equal. There's razor thin decisions, there's dominant performances, vicious knockouts, biased robberies, and a number of variable controversies. Some guys with undefeated records have fought all tomato cans and just haven't faced anybody yet. Others WERE undefeated until they lost to elite competition. Apparently, the "experts" have put Loma's L in proper context, because they still rate him P4P and whatnot. Who knows, if not for that Salido decision Lomachenko might not be the pro fighter he is today. Salido's tactics may have worked back then, but the concensus is that Loma has evolved since, and understands how to diffuse that style. So, an L can be very important, it just depends how it is spun. Like you said, the fast track runs more of a risk and is reserved for the special ones. Those boxers are expected to evolve much much faster than most. I personally think Loma deserves more props than condemnation, for overcoming the Salido loss. The only time an L needs defending or explaining is when somebody takes it out of context or defines an entire career by it. Just my perspective. Peace. :beerchug:

Trolls/guys like you need to be b*tch slapped. :lol1::lol1: at the guys discrediting Lomachenko. Old man Salido wanted no parts of that rematch because he would get schooled. Lomachenko would get his well deserved FOTD at the end of the year. https://i.imgur.com/wOQGXwn.gif Bumchenko dove right into Salidoe's wastebasket when Orlandoe dropped the WBO into the trash.

I was wrong that Ramirez didn’t have quasi pro fights as well. As for Loma/salido- many posters have posted the opinion that the way to beat a superior boxer ( specifically Floyd )is to make it an ugly brawl and fight dirty. Salido followed that blueprint and won fairly. Yes Loma was coming on at the end but he lost. No reason to suggest otherwise. I picked him to beat Russell. I am not sure if he was the favorite going in. Either way he won in dominant fashion. The bottom line is whether we are talking Loma or Ramirez, top rank fast tracked them and they both got beat early in their careers. If losing isn’t a big deal then we need not keep trying to excuse away losses like this from these 2. You can't compare Ramirez losing to a fighter who is 4-2-2 and ranked like #450 in the world with Lomachenko losing a SD to a world champion in Salido. Robeisy Ramirez was not fast tracked at all! That was my main point. Let's see if Robeisy Ramirez fights someone on Gary Russel Jr's level next? Right...I don't think so. And how I personally scored the fights has nothing to do with excuses. If you think he lost the fight with Salido that's ok, but not everyone saw it the same way man. You could argue that it's even more impressive to come back from a loss like that and win a world title when you are 1-1 vs one of the most highly touted prospects. Everything I stated about the fights are true. Salido did throw lowblows all-night and he did come in overweight at the weigh in to have a weight advantage. You can keep your opinion and I'll keep mine ok?

Thanks for that. I didn’t realize Ramirez had the quasi pro fights as well. I wasn’t using this as a an excuse to defend Ramirez losing. I know you weren’t lol. And yeah. Seems most amateurs are in the WSB now, especially since there’s no guarantee about the Olympics.

I don't think so man. Salido got outboxed in many of the rounds. I scored it a draw personally and I know many that scored it for Lomachenko. Salido came in overweight at the weigh in to have a huge weight advantage and about half the punches he landed were below the belt. That was not a case of Salido just being the better man. That was a dirty fighter using dirty tactics to edge out a win with an incompletent referee. You are entitled to your opinion, but that is mine. And idk for sure, but was Lomachenko the favourite Vs Gary Russel?! I was wrong that Ramirez didn’t have quasi pro fights as well. As for Loma/salido- many posters have posted the opinion that the way to beat a superior boxer ( specifically Floyd )is to make it an ugly brawl and fight dirty. Salido followed that blueprint and won fairly. Yes Loma was coming on at the end but he lost. No reason to suggest otherwise. I picked him to beat Russell. I am not sure if he was the favorite going in. Either way he won in dominant fashion. The bottom line is whether we are talking Loma or Ramirez, top rank fast tracked them and they both got beat early in their careers. If losing isn’t a big deal then we need not keep trying to excuse away losses like this from these 2.

They don't wear headgear in the olympics anymore. Also, Ramirez fought in the WSB just like Loma did. He had more fights too as he fought with the Cubans for two seasons. Yeah I just checked BoxRec. Ramirez had 16 WBSS fights. Another excuse struck down. Thanks for that. I didn’t realize Ramirez had the quasi pro fights as well. I wasn’t using this as a an excuse to defend Ramirez losing.

We know how difficult it can potentially fighters to transition to the pros. That's why Arum cherry picked some washed up battle-worn journeyman for Loma to face in his first few fights. Unfortunately for Bob his new chosen one couldn't handle true Mexican style. - -You calling Salido a shopworn journeyman needing a dirty Texas ref to double team an amateur "Mexican style?" Thanks for the reminder!

I agree with you in principle. Loma did have 6 quasi pro fights ( no head gear , 10 pt must system but counted as amateur as part of the AIBA) that didn’t count against his record. This wasn’t the case with Ramirez. Loma is a great boxer but he lost fair and square. His promoter, the same as Ramirez’, put them in fights they were expected to win but they lost. Happens to a lot of newly turned pros. Give Loma credit for his wins but let’s stop trying to excuse away the Salido loss or mitigate it. Salido was just the better man that night. I don't think so man. Salido got outboxed in many of the rounds. I scored it a draw personally and I know many that scored it for Lomachenko. Salido came in overweight at the weigh in to have a huge weight advantage and about half the punches he landed were below the belt. That was not a case of Salido just being the better man. That was a dirty fighter using dirty tactics to edge out a win with an incompletent referee. You are entitled to your opinion, but that is mine. And idk for sure, but was Lomachenko the favourite Vs Gary Russel?!

Cubans make terrible Pros period.

Bumchenko should thank Orlando Salidoe for losing the vacant WBO featherweight title on the scales too, otherwise he ( Bumchenko ) would of never fought Gary Russell nor become a 'world-champion' -- what a clown. Trolls/guys like you need to be b*tch slapped.

I agree with you in principle. Loma did have 6 quasi pro fights ( no head gear , 10 pt must system but counted as amateur as part of the AIBA) that didn’t count against his record. This wasn’t the case with Ramirez. Loma is a great boxer but he lost fair and square. His promoter, the same as Ramirez’, put them in fights they were expected to win but they lost. Happens to a lot of newly turned pros. Give Loma credit for his wins but let’s stop trying to excuse away the Salido loss or mitigate it. Salido was just the better man that night. They don't wear headgear in the olympics anymore. Also, Ramirez fought in the WSB just like Loma did. He had more fights too as he fought with the Cubans for two seasons.