How good is Andre Ward in an all time sense?

The thing is Ward woulda to move up to CW and fight Trinidad, Hopkins and Mosley caliber fighters, then we would have compare how those skills are great. De La Hoya was more dominant and better IMO at 130,135 than Ward was at 168. Despite the context, DLH wins over Chavez sr, Pernell and Camacho are better IMO than Ward's win over Kitty Kov, Croch and Kessler. I can't argue against this. Ward should've stayed at 160 or 168 to fight better names. Oscar does have the superior resume.

1.Nah, C'mon bro, Oscar won titles in 6 divisions, his accomplishment are way betters. He won himself a gold medal, started at 130 beat solid prime champions like G.Hernandez, John John Molina, MA Gonzalez, Ruelas, Paez he not only beat them but destroyed them. Then old but still game Pernell, Chavez (they were still world champion and he took their title), Quarety who was a beast at 147, Vargas at 154, Sturm at 160 (bad decision just as his decision loss to Trinidad). Not comparable to wins over Kessler, Froch, Abraham and Kova in 2 divisions. 2.Yet Ward struggled skillwise with Kovalov who isn't better IMO than Trinidad. And Kova was bigger, that's what happens when you move up. You guys telling me Trinidad looked like **** next to Hop, same for Oscar. But Oscar was a fckin superFW, Trinidad a WW. I mean, size matters in boxing. Ward struggled because of Kovalev's strenght, nothing to do with skill. And let me remind you that he won both fights. Ward clearly outclassed Kovalev in the second fight. And again, I agree that DelaHoya should be ranked higher when it comes to ATGs, I'm talking pure skill here. So until someone can show me in which areas DelaHoya is more skilled than Ward there really is no point arguing.

he's one of the best 168 lbers ever, but that's a migratory division without a deep history. still, he's one of the best ever at the weight. has wins over a prime kovalev, who was a bigger guy and on the pound for pound list. ward's a hall of famer if you compare him to some of the guys in there currently, gatti, mcguigan, etc. i have no doubt that we'll see him in canastota after he retires.

He's as good as his record ... Should we say more ?

I think he meant Teofilo Stevenson Wasn't he a Heavyweight?

He is a HOF. Look eventhough I thought Kovalev deserved the first win, Ward knocked him out in the second fight. Although it was a bogus stoppage, Kov was done soon I'm sure. That's the best win in boxing since Marquez KOed Pac. He is probably an ATG. I would put him past Calzaghe at this point and on the heels of guys like James Toney. He is not done either. I imagine he will fight a guy like Bellew for a title at Cruiser.

:haha::haha::haha: Better at snorting coke...slapping...and hiding. He would have schooled Ward, high or not.

He's got to be somewhere alongside Floyd by now maybe a little below Floyd. If ward steps up to heavyweight and wins he might join elite group rjj and pac and Duran's.

People are mad but ward will be top 20 lhw, maybe top 10 after it all, seen as one of the torch bearers for this era.

calling him an ATG is a bit strong but then i suppose you only get that status when you reflect on a guys career later on. Calzaghe was better though. Not true in the case of the best boxers in history. By the end of the 70s Dura nwas already being talked about as one of the greatest ever, Ali by the time of his exile was already regarded as the greatest heavyweight champion ever (by most), Robinson long before his 160 run was regarded as possibly the best to ever do it, Leonard by the time of his first retirement was alreday regarded as an ATG and so on and so forth. Looking back at Ward's career will only dampen the hype he is receiving now.

Safe to call him a HOFer at this point Wait I'm confused, I thought that would satisfy the criteria for being in the top 500? That's clearly not what I said in my post is it? :bottle:

If he beats Stevenson, and wins a title at Cruiserweight.

calling him an ATG is a bit strong but then i suppose you only get that status when you reflect on a guys career later on. Calzaghe was better though.

Actually, it's up to the people whether he's an ATG. Boxing snobs can wax lyrical about his technical prowess, but if no one remembers him or his fights after he retires he becomes consigned to the dustbin of history along with Mayweather. No one remembers nor cares about boring boxers. That's why Mayweather is desperately trying to salvage his legacy by trying to be exciting, but like most of his fights....all hype, no pay off. In 20 years time they'll still be talking about Ali, Tyson, Robinson, Marciano, SRL, Duran, Hearns, RJJ, Hamed, Barrera, Morales, JCC, Foreman, Frazier - they'll even remember journeymen like Ward. These are the fighters that captured the interest of viewers, not Mayweather and Ward - utterly forgettable. Explain how Mayweather has PPV records when he wasn't able to capture the interest of viewers.. Also search Mayweather fights on Youtube and they got plenty of views. Obviously none of his fights match Pac-JMM, Hagler-Hearns, Ali-Foreman etc but he definately captured the interest of viewers. Ward on the other hand has been PPV level since the super 6 yet only hardcore boxing fans know about him. Huge Difference. You are just a hater

I'm not talking about who should be ranked higher in the boxing pantheon, I'm talking about pure skill. DelaHoya has been in iconic fights, but how we rate these fighters has a lot to do with nostalgia. For instance, I always thought Trinidad was a garbage fighter. 1.The reason why DelaHoya ranks higher is because of the fights he's been in. Ward can't help the fact that he was born in the wrong era. Pound for pound, I think a fighter like Ward would completely embarrass someone of Trinidad's caliber. 2.We all saw what happened when he fought someone of comparable skill in Hopkins. The guy just had a very low iq and wasn't adaptable. I also remember the Winky Wright fight. I don't think I remember seeing him throw one single straight right in that fight, and that's a big problem. The guy was just grossly overrated in my opinion. Ward would've completely dominated that era. 1.Nah, C'mon bro, Oscar won titles in 6 divisions, his accomplishment are way betters. He won himself a gold medal, started at 130 beat solid prime champions like G.Hernandez, John John Molina, MA Gonzalez, Ruelas, Paez he not only beat them but destroyed them. Then old but still game Pernell, Chavez (they were still world champion and he took their title), Quarety who was a beast at 147, Vargas at 154, Sturm at 160 (bad decision just as his decision loss to Trinidad). Not comparable to wins over Kessler, Froch, Abraham and Kova in 2 divisions. 2.Yet Ward struggled skillwise with Kovalov who isn't better IMO than Trinidad. And Kova was bigger, that's what happens when you move up. You guys telling me Trinidad looked like **** next to Hop, same for Oscar. But Oscar was a fckin superFW, Trinidad a WW. I mean, size matters in boxing.

You're one of the idiots that said Ward would avoid Kovalev Then you said Kovalev would knock Ward out. Now Kovalev is a bum to you. I love to expose idiots like you who routinely do this. Kessler was so past prime that he was favored to beat Ward and win the super 6. Again you're exposing your idiocy, lack of boxing knowledge lies, and your contradictions. Camacho better win for Delahoya than Kessler Froch, and Kovalev? :lol1:That's the thing I dislike with you, that's very frustrating. You put in people mouth words they didn't say. 1.When I said Ward will avoid Kovalev? Ward is a warrior, so was Oscar. I'm none of those guys who call fighters ducks. WHEN??Please WHEN? 2.Same thing, I said Pernell, Chavez, Camacho are better wins than Kessler, Kova, Froch. I compared their 3 best wins/records. You manipulating my words when you willingly remove Pernell and Julio from the sentence. I wish we could have serious boxing talk but won't happen without a "fair trade" dude. Kova is not a bum, I was trash talking, so aren't Froch and Kessler. But they are one dimensionnal fighters despite being good at what they do. So Ward look like the complete package next to these guys. But would he next to guys like Floyd or Pernell where Oscar showed some limits? Oscar at 135 woulda destroyed a guy of Kova's skill level/caliber , woudn't need 2 fights. Oscar was a complete beast from 130 to 140, started to have limited power at 147.

Adonis???? I think he meant Teofilo Stevenson

You're one of the idiots that said Ward would avoid Kovalev Then you said Kovalev would knock Ward out. Now Kovalev is a bum to you. I love to expose idiots like you who routinely do this. Kessler was so past prime that he was favored to beat Ward and win the super 6. Again you're exposing your idiocy, lack of boxing knowledge lies, and your contradictions. Camacho better win for Delahoya than Kessler Froch, and Kovalev? :lol1: That's the thing I dislike with you, that's very frustrating. You put in people mouth words they didn't say. 1.When I said Ward will avoid Kovalev? Ward is a warrior, so was Oscar. I'm none of those guys who call fighters ducks. WHEN??Please WHEN? 2.Same thing, I said Pernell, Chavez, Camacho are better wins than Kessler, Kova, Froch. I compared their 3 best wins/records. You manipulating my words when you willingly remove Pernell and Julio from the sentence. I wish we could have serious boxing talk but won't happen without a "fair trade" dude. Kova is not a bum, I was trash talking, so aren't Froch and Kessler. But they are one dimensionnal fighters despite being good at what they do. So Ward look like the complete package next to these guys. But would he next to guys like Floyd or Pernell where Oscar showed some limits? Oscar at 135 woulda destroyed a guy like Kova, woudn't need 2 fights.

1.You're one of the idiots that said Ward would avoid Kovalev Then you said Kovalev would knock Ward out. Now Kovalev is a bum to you. I love to expose idiots like you who routinely do this. Kessler was so past prime that he was favored to beat Ward and win the super 6. Again you're exposing your idiocy, lack of boxing knowledge lies, and your contradictions. 2.Camacho better win for Delahoya than Kessler Froch, and Kovalev? :lol1: That's the thing I dislike with you, that's very frustrating. You put in people mouth words they didn't say. 1.When I said Ward will avoid Kovalev? Ward is a warrior, so was Oscar. I'm none of those guys who call fighters ducks. WHEN??Please WHEN? 2.Same thing, I said Pernell, Chavez, Camacho are better wins than Kessler, Kova, Froch. I compared their 3 best wins/records. You manipulating my words when you willingly remove Pernell and Julio from the sentence. I wish we could have serious boxing talk but won't happen without a "fair trade" dude. Kova is not a bum, so aren't Froch and Kessler. But they are one dimensionnal fighters despite being good at what they do. So Ward look like the complete package next to these guys. But would he next to guys like Floyd or Pernell where Oscar showed some limits? Oscar at 135 woulda destroyed a guy like Kova, woudn't need 2 fights.

He's up there whether people like it or not. I think when he retires more people will see him as an all time great. Actually, it's up to the people whether he's an ATG. Boxing snobs can wax lyrical about his technical prowess, but if no one remembers him or his fights after he retires he becomes consigned to the dustbin of history along with Mayweather. No one remembers nor cares about boring boxers. That's why Mayweather is desperately trying to salvage his legacy by trying to be exciting, but like most of his fights....all hype, no pay off. In 20 years time they'll still be talking about Ali, Tyson, Robinson, Marciano, SRL, Duran, Hearns, RJJ, Hamed, Barrera, Morales, JCC, Foreman, Frazier - they'll even remember journeymen like Ward. These are the fighters that captured the interest of viewers, not Mayweather and Ward - utterly forgettable.