Pacquiao has a better resume than Duran!

That's not my logic. Every fighter is different. Barrera was not the same one who beat Morales and Naz. He did have a great comeback year in 04 beating Ayala who was really too small to compete and Morales whose own arrogance made the fight much easier for Barrera than it should have been but he never did anything after that. He struggled with Rocky Juarez twice who lost to everybody he stepped up against. A younger Barrera wouldn't have had to. I didn't say he was done by any means, but the young Pac didn't blaze through the best Barrera is all I'm saying. And he might have been 28, but he turned pro when he was 15 which usually leads to a younger prime. Barrera was on a tear when Pac beat him the first time. It was Morales that was already faded when he gave Manny a boxing lesson.

I'd go with Duran personally

First off, the 8 division thing? Come on, now. The CWs were ridiculous. Duran never asked for a CW. Secondly, Pac beat a fading Barrera the first time and a much faded Barrera the second time. His wins over Morales were great no doubt. Ledwaba isn't even worth mentioning- very mediocre. And Duran had a lot of losses? Hhm. Well, the first one against Dejesus was right after Duran got injured in a car wreck back when boxers didn't drop out of a fight for a cold. Also, he crushed Dejesus in the rematches in fights that were competitive but where Duran clearly demonstrated his superiority over a great opponent. And he first Camacho fight? Clearly a robber. The Pat Lawlor defeat? Duran threw his shoulder out. The Benitez fight? Duran clearly wasn't focused or even motivated and Benitez trained his arse off for it, out of his fear of Duran. Hearns, Duran took lightly, which was a huge mistake. In the third Leonard fight, he no longer had the legs to chase Leonard down, but he did score with the only meaningful punch in the fight where he cut Leonard wide open. The Robbie Sims and Kirkland Laing upsets were from Duran not being in shape, which is his fault, but that's the point. Duran beat himself more times than any fighter could have done that he ever faced. But Duran coming in at one hundred percent and ready for his opponent rarely if ever, actually lost. And the names on Duran's list-Leonard, Dejesus, Buchannan, Cuevas, Davey Moore, Iran Barkley, were all world class guys, the majority of which were naturally much bigger than Duran. He blazed through everybody he fought at 135. He only slipped with age and higher weights. I know Pac started at 112 and all, but he didn't stay there long and bypassed a few divisions to 122 and so forth. He was killing himself to make 112 to begin with. They both have excellent resumes, but I don't know. Duran fought anybody and everybody for 35 freaking years. Pac's not even done yet and from what I've seen, no, Duran has him beat. Maybe one day, but not yet. Pac never went 15 rounds either and he's not exactly unbeaten himself. Duran never got knocked out by nobodies either. And Marquez? Duran takes him all day long, by KO IMO. Pacquiao beat a fading Barrera the first time.l? Wow. Your entire post is irrelevant due to that horsesh*t you just spouted.

If pac stayed at any length of time at 135 and 140... he would've dominated those divisions and he'd be an ATG in those divisions. The only guy in his way would've been JMM. and IMO, pac might've done better against JMM ...compared to pac-jmm 3 and 4... You have to remember before the 3rd and 4th fights... Pac got some wear and tear from facing big guys like Margarito and Clottey. He dominated them, but he was never the same after.

Ok I understand people not giving pac credit for his "8th division" title against Margs. He didn't defend the belt and it was at a catchweight. At the same time, Pac if I remember correctly pretty much skipped Super flyweight and bantamweight... He would've got titles there if he competed. So 8 division titles is fine IMO. But anyways...wtf... let's just say he held belts in 7 weight classes. That's freaking insane still. That's like imagining a Magdaleno, Oscar Valdez, Frampton, Santa Cruz, or Gary Russell Jr. ...going all the way to 147 and competing. ...Just be real... the man is 5 foot 6 and 90% of the time, he faces boxers who are taller, weigh heavier (or naturally physically bigger), and have reach advantages over him.

I really like Duran and he's an all time great and one of my favs...but one thing I know...Pac would never say 'no mas'

You're saying he isn't an ATG? :dunce: Speaking of circuses, What did PT Barnum say? Theres a sucker born every minute. :rofl: catchweights, past prime fights, ped allegations followed by lackluster fights, shoulder-gate - the list goes on. i vote No on ATG and YES as media creation.

I'm not going to be a snob and pretend like Pacquiao doesn't belong in the conversation with these past greats. But with Duran you have to look at the timing. You can't just list the names. His ATG run at lightweight, victory over the #1 fighter in the world, in his prime and moving up to beat Iran Barkley with no catchweight gives him the edge. Pac has some great wins and is an ATG in his own right but some of those wins were against past prime fighters and were at catchweights where the opponent was clearly less than 100%. Again, Duran is clearly a Top Twenty ATG. But it's the argument of longevity and quantity as well as quality. How many champs/former champs has Pacquiao beat in comparison to Duran? Partly why I don't think Chavez' record is very impressive. A lot of bums. Also why I think Floyd has an great resume just in terms of all the names. Who did Duran beat during his LW reign? Does it even compare to Pacquiao's accomplishments of being a champion in 6 divisions as well as beating 3 other ATG's? Strictly holding to their 147-under careers, Pacquiao beat far more names that were equally, if not more impressive. Say Duran's peak was more impressive, but his climb(LW) isn't on par with Pacquiao's and his fall(post-SRL) definitely isn't as impressive.

48ers always trying to put that atg spin on this cheater. circus fights, catchweight fights. steroid allegations, fighting Moneys leftovers.. etc.. just give it up man. no he wasnt better than Duran :rofl: You're saying he isn't an ATG? :dunce:

Damn Duran literally beat Jesus...twice :lol1: Some say his win over SRL is still better than beating Jesus.

Continuing on from the SRL-Money thread... I want to point out that Manny has a better overall body of work compared to Duran's. Far better, actually. Looking at Duran's signature wins, he has: Jesus x2 Buchanan SRL Barkley Palomino Cuevas Pacquiao, by comparison, has: Barrera x2 Marquez x2 Morales x2 Bradley x2 Margarito ODLH Cotto Hatton Ledwaba Not to mention a hell of a lot more quantitative quality, including being an 8-division champ as well as P4P in his late 30's. Duran has the greater win over SRL, no comparison, but this is the same argument with Leonard-Floyd. Quality, at some point, doesn't beat the amount of quantity+quality that Floyd or Manny have. Not to mention the losses that Duran also has in numbers... Could you say that he was a better fighter than Manny? Arguably, sure, but you can't debate that his resume is inferior... 48ers always trying to put that atg spin on this cheater. circus fights, catchweight fights. steroid allegations, fighting Moneys leftovers.. etc.. just give it up man. no he wasnt better than Duran :rofl:

WRONG. Margarito fought @ 154lbs in his fight prior to Pacquiao... against a guy you couldn't even find on google at the time, not to mention marg had just come off suspension. that whole situation was terrible that belt was handed to pac man I don't really give him credit for that 8th division.

After this post, no more needs to be said. I think Duran, jumped from lightweight to welterweight, to beat a bonafide top ten all-time great in Sugar Ray in his prime. I don't really think these new cats, realize, how bad Duran, Sugar, Marvin, Hearns, Benitez were. They try to pass them off as just names these days. Lol They literally have no freaking clue.

Dude, Durán would have eaten Pac alive. And everyone nowadays. I take you never saw him live. He was the best!

I'm not going to be a snob and pretend like Pacquiao doesn't belong in the conversation with these past greats. But with Duran you have to look at the timing. You can't just list the names. His ATG run at lightweight, victory over the #1 fighter in the world, in his prime and moving up to beat Iran Barkley with no catchweight gives him the edge. Pac has some great wins and is an ATG in his own right but some of those wins were against past prime fighters and were at catchweights where the opponent was clearly less than 100%. After this post, no more needs to be said. I think Duran, jumped from lightweight to welterweight, to beat a bonafide top ten all-time great in Sugar Ray in his prime. I don't really think these new cats, realize, how bad Duran, Sugar, Marvin, Hearns, Benitez were. They try to pass them off as just names these days. Lol

PACs tip ten atg. So of course many will think he has bettwer resume than Duran.

Continuing on from the SRL-Money thread... I want to point out that Manny has a better overall body of work compared to Duran's. Far better, actually. Looking at Duran's signature wins, he has: Jesus x2 Buchanan SRL Barkley Palomino Cuevas Pacquiao, by comparison, has: Barrera x2 Marquez x2 Morales x2 Bradley x2 Margarito ODLH Cotto Hatton Ledwaba Not to mention a hell of a lot more quantitative quality, including being an 8-division champ as well as P4P in his late 30's. Duran has the greater win over SRL, no comparison, but this is the same argument with Leonard-Floyd. Quality, at some point, doesn't beat the amount of quantity+quality that Floyd or Manny have. Not to mention the losses that Duran also has in numbers... Could you say that he was a better fighter than Manny? Arguably, sure, but you can't debate that his resume is inferior... Duran has 14 signature wins Ernesto Marcel Hector Thompson Guts Ishimatsu Edwin Viruet Ray Lampkin Jose Cuevas Esteban DeJesus x2 Carlos Palomino Ken Buchanan Davie Moore Iran Barkley Ray Leonard Hector Camacho would be in there if Duran wasn't robbed big time in their first fight. Both Duran and Pac dared to be great by climbing the weight divisions fighting bigger men. A lot of people don't know Duran started fighting at bantamweight, and has a brilliant win at feather against Marcel, all before he peaked and dominated at lightweight for nearly a decade.

Morales admitted that he took Raheem lightly, and didn't train much for the fight and thought of it as a tune up. There were no feints from Morales in that fight. It is unfair to say that it was the same Morales who fought Manny the first. But is also unfair to say that Pacquiao shouldn't even get credit knowing Morales forced Pacquiao to where pillows in the first fight. And Morales out boxed Pacquiao for the first 6 rounds till BODY SHOTS took toll on his body, because he(PAC) was now allowed to where Pacquiao's Reyes Gloves. Raheem just fought Morales at just the right mental condition. It is even more ludicrous to suggest Raheem would beat Pacquiao. Stop it dude, please. This is you being a Manny diehard. It wasn't the gloves, Morales was just slightly better at the time. Morales was having a tough time making 130 anymore. Then Bob tried to get him a title at 135 and he took on the lightest hitting champion at the weight and it backfired. Morales left alot of himself in the ring that night. Go watch that fight., I meant what I said literally-If Raheem had any pop Morales might have never fought again. I will say this-poster IronDanHamza suggested the 12th round of Morales/Manny 1 did a lot of long teerm damage to Morales. I think that is a fair point even though I may not necessarily agree.

Margarito just fought at 147 in his last fight and weighed in 165 against Pacquiao you idiot. Margo fought at 154 the fight before and was coming off of a year ban

I'm not going to be a snob and pretend like Pacquiao doesn't belong in the conversation with these past greats. But with Duran you have to look at the timing. You can't just list the names. His ATG run at lightweight, victory over the #1 fighter in the world, in his prime and moving up to beat Iran Barkley with no catchweight gives him the edge. Pac has some great wins and is an ATG in his own right but some of those wins were against past prime fighters and were at catchweights where the opponent was clearly less than 100%.