"Slick Boxer" The Most Abused and Misused Term in Boxing

I agree. I posted a quote from Carlos Palomino attesting to that. Duran was a hard target. My opinion of labeling someone like Roberto as "slick" has more to do with aesthetics and with categorizing someone like him that way. "Slick boxers" are elusive; they dance; they fight on their toes; they flick jabs, etc. When you think of slick boxers, Duran simply isn't a name that comes to mind. I've never considered avoiding through separation and staying away slick. Whitaker isn't the slickest fighter ever because he had good footwork and could stay away. He's the slickest fighter ever because he could fight 12 rounds in a phone booth and not get hit.

Nah dude, what you're saying is forget about the feet just use your upper body when the footwork is the second most important thing in boxing. Footwork isn't just moving out of range though. It's also pivoting and changing angles to set up shots. Lara puts up his guard and shells up when his opponent closes in on him. He's very one dimensional offensively. Very good at that one dimension. Hell he's one of my favorite fighters. But I call a spade a spade. He's just a very well schooled outboxer, not necessarily a slick boxer. I think once again people are confusing "skilled boxer" versus "slick boxer"

:nonono: Duran was the very definition of a slick aggressive fighter. He was hardly a brawler. An absurd misconception. He was an aggressive counter puncher that set everything up with beautiful head movement, feints and counters. Leonard wasn't what I would term slick in the second fight. He used basic footwork to stay out of range and his height and speed to keep away. Not really the traits most apply to the slick style of fighting. Misconception or no, Duran was often regarded as a brawler. My argument has been that, although Duran certainly had slick qualities, he's never been regarded as a slick fighter. Here's a UPI article from the day before the Leonard rematch, referring to Duran as a "brawler": http://www.upi.com/Archives/1980/11/25/Roberto-Duran-the-brawler-and-Sugar-Ray-Leonard-the/5303343976400/ Days after the first Duran-Leonard fight, William Nash of Sports Illustrated wrote this: "Last Friday night, in a chilly, rain-soaked stadium in Canada, the two men met and fought with uncommon courage, in a way that honored them both. The French Canadians billed the fight as Le Face-a-Face Historique. A historic face-to-face, that was to match perhaps the two finest fighters in the world today, and over the 15 rounds the bout was every bit of that. It was historic, all right—a magnificent, memorable combat between a boxer, Leonard, and a brawler, Duran. NY Times columnist Red Smith put it best, several days before the first fight: "Duran's intensity in the ring and his record of 55 knockouts in 71 fights -- 51 in 63 against lightweights -- contribute to the concept of a street brawler, but he is no unpolished headhunter. Always bobbing, weaving, moving, he is difficult to hit cleanly and next to impossible to hurt. He attacks from every imaginable angle and the attack is relentless." I can provide more support for my argument, but I rest my case. While Roberto Duran certainly possessed slick qualities, he did not fit the mold of the "slick boxer."

Actually Lara tricks you all the time by moving, leaning back and leaning forward. He is not just jumping out, he resets you, he changes the angle on you and then he hits you all the while you're like "what did he do, he didn't even trick me?" lol. He tricks you by using boxing fundamentals, it doesn't always have to be as obvious as make you miss and make you pay. Being slick is not just about staying on the inside and making them miss. You can make them miss with your footwork as well. Who comes to me as slick these days - it's Loma, Rigo, Lara, Manny, Crawford and even Kovalev. They all do in different ways but there is no one way of being slick like James Toney and Pernell Whitaker. When Ali and Ray Leonard used a ton of movement just like Erislandy Lara everybody is calling them slick but Lara isn't? It's too far in between with Lara, in fact Lara struggles to lure his opponents into traps so much so that his output suffers as a result. Even when he makes his opponents miss he doesn't always make them pay.

While I agree 100% on Pernell and Toney, bro, I can't agree on Duran. Although Roberto's skill is under-appreciated, he was known primarily as a brawler. Young Ali was slick; Camacho was slick; "Sugar" Ray Leonard was slick. I can think of many who fit that description, but not Duran. :nonono: Duran was the very definition of a slick aggressive fighter. He was hardly a brawler. An absurd misconception. He was an aggressive counter puncher that set everything up with beautiful head movement, feints and counters. Leonard wasn't what I would term slick in the second fight. He used basic footwork to stay out of range and his height and speed to keep away. Not really the traits most apply to the slick style of fighting.

A fighter that doesn't get hit every often, but still gets their punches off.

It's pretty much boxing hippies trying to redefine what slick is and who is slick.

Actually Lara tricks you all the time by moving, leaning back and leaning forward. He is not just jumping out, he resets you, he changes the angle on you and then he hits you all the while you're like "what did he do, he didn't even trick me?" lol. He tricks you by using boxing fundamentals, it doesn't always have to be as obvious as make you miss and make you pay. Being slick is not just about staying on the inside and making them miss. You can make them miss with your footwork as well. Who comes to me as slick these days - it's Loma, Rigo, Lara, Manny, Crawford and even Kovalev. They all do in different ways but there is no one way of being slick like James Toney and Pernell Whitaker. When Ali and Ray Leonard used a ton of movement just like Erislandy Lara everybody is calling them slick but Lara isn't? Lara does the same move over and over, he is not tricky. He is hard to deal with because his moves are down pat and he doesn't take risks. Making someone miss while being able to land blows is being a good boxer. Being able to attack and defend almost simultaneously is being slick. Lomachenko and Rigondeaux are slick the rest of that list is not, good boxers sure but not slick they are either defending or attacking.

I highly disagree with that. Slick isn't a certain style, and it's not dancing and flicking jabs and avoiding your opponent, it's the ability to stand in range and manipulate the fight with your upper body. It's that ability to make a guy miss by inches over and over when you're right in front of him and come back with your own punches. That's what Toney and Whitaker and every great slick fighter did. That was Roberto Duran. Duran was way under prepared for the second Leonard fight due to heavy partying between fights and having to cut a tone of weight. Even Leonard said Duran was no where near the same guy he fought in Montreal. This has a lot to do with Leonard getting away with clowning Duran the way he did. As for Duran being slick. He is widely considered in boxing to be one of the slickest boxers of all time. You might not think this because he doesn't fit the skin tone of the stereotypical Slickster but he is infact one of the best examples of 'slick'. Even Floyd Sr has been on video saying Duran was "Slick as hell, man". I understand where you guys are coming from. We simply disagree on the definition. I do consider slickness a general style, not just a trait. Duran had the traits, but not the style, in my opinion. And, yes, black fighters have developed the stereotype for slickness. It's a cultural thing, some will even say it's a genetic thing. But although slickness has come to be associated with blackness, there have been fighters of different races that had slick styles. Willie Pep and Hector Camacho, to name just two, were very slick boxers. I used the second Duran-Leonard fight to illustrate a point. Would Roberto have been slicker on another day? Perhaps. But on that day Leonard was the epitome of a slick fighter. The style was there in full bloom.

Slick = hard to hit at range and a very accurate counter puncher in the pocket. And black...doe.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2612982/duran-beats-leonard-up-o.gif http://i.imgur.com/kSNZ81S.gif http://45.media.tumblr.com/68d20f6f74bcd283d8df0fefc7ea34ab/tumblr_mw2v2naT9V1rnxl9do3_r1_400.gif Duran was amazing man. Him, Whitaker and Mayweather are by far my 3 favorite fighters of all time. I need to learn how to make gifs.

I agree. I posted a quote from Carlos Palomino attesting to that. Duran was a hard target. My opinion of labeling someone like Roberto as "slick" has more to do with aesthetics and with categorizing someone like him that way. "Slick boxers" are elusive; they dance; they fight on their toes; they flick jabs, etc. When you think of slick boxers, Duran simply isn't a name that comes to mind. One guy I think of when I hear the term "slick boxer" is "Sugar" Ray Leonard. In their second fight, Leonard's true slickness was on full display versus Duran, who couldn't lay a glove on him. And on the flip-side, Roberto couldn't avoid Ray's fast hands. All you have to do is watch the first round of the sequel to see what I mean. Duran practically standing in place, while Leonard had all of the above mentioned qualities working. That's what I think of when I hear "slick boxer." https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aChC6U3Ks Duran was way under prepared for the second Leonard fight due to heavy partying between fights and having to cut a tone of weight. Even Leonard said Duran was no where near the same guy he fought in Montreal. This has a lot to do with Leonard getting away with clowning Duran the way he did. As for Duran being slick. He is widely considered in boxing to be one of the slickest boxers of all time. You might not think this because he doesn't fit the skin tone of the stereotypical Slickster but he is infact one of the best examples of 'slick'. Even Floyd Sr has been on video saying Duran was "Slick as hell, man".

I agree. I posted a quote from Carlos Palomino attesting to that. Duran was a hard target. My opinion of labeling someone like Roberto as "slick" has more to do with aesthetics and with categorizing someone like him that way. "Slick boxers" are elusive; they dance; they fight on their toes; they flick jabs, etc. When you think of slick boxers, Duran simply isn't a name that comes to mind. One guy I think of when I hear the term "slick boxer" is "Sugar" Ray Leonard. In their second fight, Leonard's true slickness was on full display versus Duran, who couldn't lay a glove on him. And on the flip-side, Roberto couldn't avoid Ray's fast hands. All you have to do is watch the first round of the sequel to see what I mean. Duran practically standing in place, while Leonard had all of the above mentioned qualities working. That's what I think of when I hear "slick boxer." https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aChC6U3Ks I highly disagree with that. Slick isn't a certain style, and it's not dancing and flicking jabs and avoiding your opponent, it's the ability to stand in range and manipulate the fight with your upper body. It's that ability to make a guy miss by inches over and over when you're right in front of him and come back with your own punches. That's what Toney and Whitaker and every great slick fighter did. That was Roberto Duran.

Are you guys just making this sht up? I've been on this shtty forum since 2008 and most people have always categorized slickness with slipping/parrying punches, in-pocket elusiveness. If slickness is all this fancy dancing then James Toney surely can't be slick.

Don't get me wrong, both have shown slickness (or at least they way I define it) but against their best opponents they've not really pulled it off. Broner's good but his failings don't need to be elaborated on, though maybe you're right and the Khabib fight represents the turning of a corner. Rances I really like as a fighter, but did you watch the Shafikov bout? Lol. Yeah. They both got to show me more. Showboating and counters against **** opposition doesn't convince me of anything.

??? Broner, the way he fought Khabib woukd beat Porter this time around. He went through a mental discipline I'm sure after Haymon shouted him on his debauchery and wildlife. Rances, against DeMarco, I have him beating Victor Postol. Cmon man, Rances is even better than Ward at switching Southpaw to Orthodox. Broner doing upoercuts on Khabib and flying from the ropes so gracefully. That's boxing! Hence we were talking about slick styles. Don't get me wrong, both have shown slickness (or at least they way I define it) but against their best opponents they've not really pulled it off. Broner's good but his failings don't need to be elaborated on, though maybe you're right and the Khabib fight represents the turning of a corner. Rances I really like as a fighter, but did you watch the Shafikov bout?

Barthelemy, Rigo, Ward, Broner Surely to be slick you actually have to make guys not hit you. It ain't just a look. Not so sure you can say that about Rances and Broner.

But you are looking at it from the fans prospective. What do you think his opponents would say? After 12 rounds, probably less, of having him right in front of you but all your punches miss, glance, parried, blocked, you'd be amazed just how slick he was. I agree. I posted a quote from Carlos Palomino attesting to that. Duran was a hard target. My opinion of labeling someone like Roberto as "slick" has more to do with aesthetics and with categorizing someone like him that way. "Slick boxers" are elusive; they dance; they fight on their toes; they flick jabs, etc. When you think of slick boxers, Duran simply isn't a name that comes to mind. One guy I think of when I hear the term "slick boxer" is "Sugar" Ray Leonard. In their second fight, Leonard's true slickness was on full display versus Duran, who couldn't lay a glove on him. And on the flip-side, Roberto couldn't avoid Ray's fast hands. All you have to do is watch the first round of the sequel to see what I mean. Duran practically standing in place, while Leonard had all of the above mentioned qualities working. That's what I think of when I hear "slick boxer." https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aChC6U3Ks

But you are looking at it from the fans prospective. What do you think his opponents would say? After 12 rounds, probably less, of having him right in front of you but all your punches miss, glance, parried, blocked, you'd be amazed just how slick he was. I agree. I posted a quote from Carlos Palomino attesting to that. Duran was a hard target. My opinion of labeling someone like Roberto as "slick" has more to do with aesthetics and with categorizing someone like him that way. "Slick boxers are elusive; they dance; they fight on their toes; they flick jabs, etc. When you think of slick boxers, Duran simply isn't a name that comes to mind. One guy I think of when I hear the term "slick boxer" is "Sugar" Ray Leonard. In their second fight, Leonard's true slickness was on full display versus Duran, who couldn't lay a glove on him. And on the flip-side, Roberto couldn't avoid Ray's fast hands. Witness round one of the sequel. Duran practically standing in place, while Leonard had all of the above mentioned qualities working. That's what I think of when I hear "slick boxer." https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aChC6U3Ks