WOW! PBC has burned thorugh 143M dollars, investors lose 27.5% of its value!

Really? How many fighters have we seen sit out for loooong stretches of time because of greed and they thought they were getting underpaid? Mikey Garcia? Andre Ward? Yuriorkis Gamboa? James Kirkland? There are so many more too... So many good fights could have been made, and that's before you had guys that should have been getting 150k paydays, getting 1.5m paydays. And how did that work out for any of them?

What would be an issue? The fact that capital investment for the sport would be at an all time low and future investment in the sport would be unlikely at best. With the premium budgets continuing to drop, the purses would drop making the attraction of real athletic talent less and less likely. With the sport becoming so small and insignificant that the doctors eventually get their way with boxing being gone entirely~ Money makes the world go around, growing purses is not a bad thing shrinking purses are~

Nah, they'll be no TV time for all of them, and they'll realize they need to take less. Also, these guys aren't very smart, they'll need that next paycheck. They won't hold out for long even if they wanted to. Really? How many fighters have we seen sit out for loooong stretches of time because of greed and they thought they were getting underpaid? Mikey Garcia? Andre Ward? Yuriorkis Gamboa? James Kirkland? There are so many more too... So many good fights could have been made, and that's before you had guys that should have been getting 150k paydays, getting 1.5m paydays.

Then those guys will be gone from the sport essentially, and new guys will take over~ or if they are worth it they will get paid accordingly or they will adjust accordingly. Not really an issue. What would be an issue?

If it fails, there is going to be a whole crop of top level talent with unrealistic expectations of their earning potentials because they have not been earning fair market value, and have been getting paid bloated numbers so Al can line his pockets. Nah, they'll be no TV time for all of them, and they'll realize they need to take less. Also, these guys aren't very smart, they'll need that next paycheck. They won't hold out for long even if they wanted to.

If it fails, there is going to be a whole crop of top level talent with unrealistic expectations of their earning potentials because they have not been earning fair market value, and have been getting paid bloated numbers so Al can line his pockets. Then those guys will be gone from the sport essentially, and new guys will take over~ or if they are worth it they will get paid accordingly or they will adjust accordingly. Not really an issue.

So this thread is staying active because 2 people going back and forth about it? :lol1: Nobody gives a sh1t! If you want PBC to fail the best way to do that would be to Not Watch and Not Talk About it Right? :dunno: Just Saying! I doubt Haymon needs or will take business advice from any of us who never build a successful Business or successful Brand. PBC is in its very early stages right now. All we can do is WAIT AND SEE! Stop trying to predict the future and speak in absolutes like you know for sure how this thing will turn out...Because You Don't! It could work with some adjustments, or it could fail and he just goes back to the old Showtime and PPV's Formats. See but that was kind of my original point 50 posts and a week ago with this guy. It will succeed or fail because their method works or it doesn't. It isn't that crucial, but if dude wants to run his mouth to me which he has done repeatedly trying to sound like he has a clue then **** it. I haven't had to change my stance once in this thread though~

1. Right now they have NO TV DEALS. A TV deal is when the network pays you for content, not when you pay the network. 2. The brand means nothing unless it is the only game in town and no one can start a competing brand. 3. What marketing rights? No one owns the marketing rights to boxing and no one ever will. They own the marketing rights to PBC which is worth nothing at all. 4. The ring, stage and so on are worth nothing to anyone else beyond about 25% of their original cost. They would all have to be rebranded with a new name once PBC folds. So basically you are agreeing with me that PBC as it stands today has no value. Even if it becomes an established brand, it will be worth nothing without a stable of contracted fighters to go along with it. Right now PBC does not have that stable, the only fighters with contracts are those who are signed with Al Haymon and technically Haymon works for the fighters as an 'advisor', they do not work for him. For Cinci Champ and others like him... Pointing out the flaws in the PBC plan does not mean anyone wants it to fail. It is simply pointing out that Haymon is not the savior of boxing and that he is not in this for altruistic reasons. He is in it for the money and he will make millions whether PBC succeeds or fails. I'm all in favor with boxing being back on network television. But I want it done properly, where all promoters and fighters are welcome and fighters are paid fairly but not with ridiculous purses that doom the entire thing to failure and which will end up hurting the sport as a whole. I do not want to see any single person or entity trying to control boxing and turn it into a second rate version of UFC or Bellator. If it fails, there is going to be a whole crop of top level talent with unrealistic expectations of their earning potentials because they have not been earning fair market value, and have been getting paid bloated numbers so Al can line his pockets.

So basically you are agreeing with me that PBC as it stands today has no value. Even if it becomes an established brand, it will be worth nothing without a stable of contracted fighters to go along with it. Right now PBC does not have that stable, the only fighters with contracts are those who are signed with Al Haymon and technically Haymon works for the fighters as an 'advisor', they do not work for him. . I pretty much agree with most of what you said, but PBC's "perceived value" will be based on the fact they can fill time slots with live sporting events. That's what there aiming for here. And those events will hopefully also to ppv revenue. (which is a big part of this whole thing that no one talks about) As far as $ right now, there burning through $ like crazy. But they've always known this was going to be the case, which is why the hedge fund gave them so much.

1. Right now they have NO TV DEALS. A TV deal is when the network pays you for content, not when you pay the network. 2. The brand means nothing unless it is the only game in town and no one can start a competing brand. 3. What marketing rights? No one owns the marketing rights to boxing and no one ever will. They own the marketing rights to PBC which is worth nothing at all. 4. The ring, stage and so on are worth nothing to anyone else beyond about 25% of their original cost. They would all have to be rebranded with a new name once PBC folds. So basically you are agreeing with me that PBC as it stands today has no value. Even if it becomes an established brand, it will be worth nothing without a stable of contracted fighters to go along with it. Right now PBC does not have that stable, the only fighters with contracts are those who are signed with Al Haymon and technically Haymon works for the fighters as an 'advisor', they do not work for him. For Cinci Champ and others like him... Pointing out the flaws in the PBC plan does not mean anyone wants it to fail. It is simply pointing out that Haymon is not the savior of boxing and that he is not in this for altruistic reasons. He is in it for the money and he will make millions whether PBC succeeds or fails. I'm all in favor with boxing being back on network television. But I want it done properly, where all promoters and fighters are welcome and fighters are paid fairly but not with ridiculous purses that doom the entire thing to failure and which will end up hurting the sport as a whole. I do not want to see any single person or entity trying to control boxing and turn it into a second rate version of UFC or Bellator. 1) One they paid for the time, that time is worth an amount. Going forward they will get TV deals, it is not a matter of if it is a matter of how much they pull. 2) So Pepsi means nothing because Coke exists? Burger King means nothing because McDonalds exists. PBC if it works out will mean high end boxing programming which hold quite a bit of value. 3) This is the beginning, as long as it has viewers there are things that can be marketed. 4) Still holds value. So because things always stay static is why you think it will fail, No we don't agree because this is the beginning so of course it holds minimal value off the rip, once it become a proven commodity over the course of the the time buy that changes quite a bit. You are stuck in the here and now while value is generally a forward looking thing. It is why companies get billion dollar valuations without ever coming close to a profit because in the future they may look good. It is no different here.

We already went through this exact thing. 1) The TV deals it will have hold value, the time they own now holds value 2) What the brand means holds value, because it will be associated with top end pro boxing. 3) Whatever marketing rights they work out hold value. 4) The actual assets they own ring, stage that stuff. Sure anyone can try to do it but as PBC becomes an established brand it will be harder and harder to overtake. Right now PBC isn't worth much of anything and it is unknown how successful they will make it and there are plenty of questions that can be asked about certain ways they are approaching the building of the brand. It takes time to do that, but if the brand gains traction the name will then hold a real value. They aren't looking to sell anytime soon so a lot of the limited stuff now is kind of meaningless, unless it stays that ways. That can change quite a bit. 1. Right now they have NO TV DEALS. A TV deal is when the network pays you for content, not when you pay the network. 2. The brand means nothing unless it is the only game in town and no one can start a competing brand. 3. What marketing rights? No one owns the marketing rights to boxing and no one ever will. They own the marketing rights to PBC which is worth nothing at all. 4. The ring, stage and so on are worth nothing to anyone else beyond about 25% of their original cost. They would all have to be rebranded with a new name once PBC folds. So basically you are agreeing with me that PBC as it stands today has no value. Even if it becomes an established brand, it will be worth nothing without a stable of contracted fighters to go along with it. Right now PBC does not have that stable, the only fighters with contracts are those who are signed with Al Haymon and technically Haymon works for the fighters as an 'advisor', they do not work for him. For Cinci Champ and others like him... Pointing out the flaws in the PBC plan does not mean anyone wants it to fail. It is simply pointing out that Haymon is not the savior of boxing and that he is not in this for altruistic reasons. He is in it for the money and he will make millions whether PBC succeeds or fails. I'm all in favor with boxing being back on network television. But I want it done properly, where all promoters and fighters are welcome and fighters are paid fairly but not with ridiculous purses that doom the entire thing to failure and which will end up hurting the sport as a whole. I do not want to see any single person or entity trying to control boxing and turn it into a second rate version of UFC or Bellator.

So this thread is staying active because 2 people going back and forth about it? :lol1: Nobody gives a sh1t! If you want PBC to fail the best way to do that would be to Not Watch and Not Talk About it Right? :dunno: Just Saying! I doubt Haymon needs or will take business advice from any of us who never build a successful Business or successful Brand. PBC is in its very early stages right now. All we can do is WAIT AND SEE! Stop trying to predict the future and speak in absolutes like you know for sure how this thing will turn out...Because You Don't! It could work with some adjustments, or it could fail and he just goes back to the old Showtime and PPV's Formats.

Please tell us where PBC gets it's value from? No one has been able to explain this. They do not have exclusive contracts with any fighters, they have no league setup that includes team franchises to sell, they have very limited advertising - not even enough to break even on each broadcast. They currently have to pay for their own broadcasting time. So what exactly are their assets? The PBC name? That is worth exactly nothing. I or anyone else can create our own boxing show tomorrow called Super Boxing Champions and start our own show if we had the money to invest. Football and Baseball and Hockey get network deals because they are the only game in town. There is only one NFL, one MLB, one NHL, one NBA. And they have a volume of content that boxing cannot match in a million years. But there is NO single group or entity that controls boxing and there never will be due to the international nature of the sport. Because of this, PBC has zero inherent value. Now if PBC can go out and start a UFC style league where all the fighters are directly contracted to PBC and unable to fight anywhere else, THEN and ONLY THEN would they have something of value. That something would be their stable of fighters. And they would have to have ALL the top fighters for this to work and they would require their own titles and have to basically put the existing sanctioning organizations out of business. Good luck with that. We already went through this exact thing. 1) The TV deals it will have hold value, the time they own now holds value 2) What the brand means holds value, because it will be associated with top end pro boxing. 3) Whatever marketing rights they work out hold value. 4) The actual assets they own ring, stage that stuff. Sure anyone can try to do it but as PBC becomes an established brand it will be harder and harder to overtake. Right now PBC isn't worth much of anything and it is unknown how successful they will make it and there are plenty of questions that can be asked about certain ways they are approaching the building of the brand. It takes time to do that, but if the brand gains traction the name will then hold a real value. They aren't looking to sell anytime soon so a lot of the limited stuff now is kind of meaningless, unless it stays that ways. That can change quite a bit.

Al Haymon trying to copy the UFC model of course we all know that. The thing is the UFC pays its fighters 60k average. Haymon paying i his fighters 10x, 20x and even 30x that amount. Thats the reason UFC is so profitable.

never understood why you guys want haymon to fail we are now getting boxing more often and the whole idea of this thing is to get these channels to give contracts thats the end of the story until then the idea is to spend money until they see if they get tv contracts when the time buys are over these hope haymon fails threads are pointless until then

That has nothing to do with the national TV package, that is totally separate. I never said boxing would make more money than MLB or the NBA or NHL total. I just said they will get a good national TV deal, which they will even if they have stagnate ratings. Those are money making machines as a whole and it would be 10's to 100's of billions to buy one lock stock and barrel. PBC will be doing good to get to 1 billion total value, but that is still a **** ton of money and they could get more without coming close to touching those leagues values. It is that simple, boxing has a place and it can take advantage of the place it occupies because of the nature of it being a sport making it much watch TV. The shows will vary in popularity because the fighters vary in popularity but that makes each event much more special on average because the fighters are on less. The violence factor will turn some people away but it will bring in more because it is such a rare thing in today's culture. Please tell us where PBC gets it's value from? No one has been able to explain this. They do not have exclusive contracts with any fighters, they have no league setup that includes team franchises to sell, they have very limited advertising - not even enough to break even on each broadcast. They currently have to pay for their own broadcasting time. So what exactly are their assets? The PBC name? That is worth exactly nothing. I or anyone else can create our own boxing show tomorrow called Super Boxing Champions and start our own show if we had the money to invest. Football and Baseball and Hockey get network deals because they are the only game in town. There is only one NFL, one MLB, one NHL, one NBA. And they have a volume of content that boxing cannot match in a million years. But there is NO single group or entity that controls boxing and there never will be due to the international nature of the sport. Because of this, PBC has zero inherent value. Now if PBC can go out and start a UFC style league where all the fighters are directly contracted to PBC and unable to fight anywhere else, THEN and ONLY THEN would they have something of value. That something would be their stable of fighters. And they would have to have ALL the top fighters for this to work and they would require their own titles and have to basically put the existing sanctioning organizations out of business. Good luck with that.

Do you not realize that MLB has their own entire cable package that carries EVERY GAME OF EVERY TEAM? That real baseball fans subscribe to this as a pay service at a much higher price than people pay for HBO? Real sports fans do not limit themselves to watching one game per week and only of their favorite team. They watch as many games as they can and they are willing to pay for the privilege. Boxing with one show per week, and months between major contests happening, cannot compete with team sports, or with other major sports such as auto racing or tennis. The audience simply is not there. Parents send their kids to baseball camp in the summer or football camp and hockey camp in the winter. No one sends their kids to boxing camp. You have to realize as well that as a society, we are moving away from violent sports as accepted entertainment. Football is being toned down due to head injuries, hockey is being toned down due to head injuries. Do you think society is going to get behind a sport where the main goal of the game is to cause a head injury to your opponent by knocking him out? I love boxing. I love all martial arts and began training in them when I was 8 years old and only stopped being active when I hit my 40s. But as much as I love boxing, I know that it is long past the time where it can regain the status it once had in the sporting world. It will never compete with advertiser or fan dollars with other cleaner, more organized, more fan and family friendly sports. Boxing is an archaic throwback to our past and will remain a fringe sport along with MMA. All the wishing in the world will not change that. That has nothing to do with the national TV package, that is totally separate. I never said boxing would make more money than MLB or the NBA or NHL total. I just said they will get a good national TV deal, which they will even if they have stagnate ratings. Those are money making machines as a whole and it would be 10's to 100's of billions to buy one lock stock and barrel. PBC will be doing good to get to 1 billion total value, but that is still a **** ton of money and they could get more without coming close to touching those leagues values. It is that simple, boxing has a place and it can take advantage of the place it occupies because of the nature of it being a sport making it much watch TV. The shows will vary in popularity because the fighters vary in popularity but that makes each event much more special on average because the fighters are on less. The violence factor will turn some people away but it will bring in more because it is such a rare thing in today's culture.

It doesn't have to compete with them, it has to find it's niche which it clearly occupies. Most Baseball games are on local cable stations same with basketball and hockey. There are only a couple national games a week. Do you not get that? We are talking just national TV not local TV deal. Big difference, do you not see that? If people like PBC fights they will tune in to watch most PBC get to know the guys and know when they are fighting, they may not like some. That would be the market sorting it out though. Boxing is different that is true, but that does not mean that it will not work in much the same way because of those differences as there are always new guys emerging. Talk about not seeing things yet bringing up totally unrelated stuff to a national TV contract and throwing a fit about it~ Do you not realize that MLB has their own entire cable package that carries EVERY GAME OF EVERY TEAM? That real baseball fans subscribe to this as a pay service at a much higher price than people pay for HBO? Real sports fans do not limit themselves to watching one game per week and only of their favorite team. They watch as many games as they can and they are willing to pay for the privilege. Boxing with one show per week, and months between major contests happening, cannot compete with team sports, or with other major sports such as auto racing or tennis. The audience simply is not there. Parents send their kids to baseball camp in the summer or football camp and hockey camp in the winter. No one sends their kids to boxing camp. You have to realize as well that as a society, we are moving away from violent sports as accepted entertainment. Football is being toned down due to head injuries, hockey is being toned down due to head injuries. Do you think society is going to get behind a sport where the main goal of the game is to cause a head injury to your opponent by knocking him out? I love boxing. I love all martial arts and began training in them when I was 8 years old and only stopped being active when I hit my 40s. But as much as I love boxing, I know that it is long past the time where it can regain the status it once had in the sporting world. It will never compete with advertiser or fan dollars with other cleaner, more organized, more fan and family friendly sports. Boxing is an archaic throwback to our past and will remain a fringe sport along with MMA. All the wishing in the world will not change that.

NBA ratings http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2015/04/22/Media/NBA-audience.aspx

Tell me how boxing can compete with hockey or baseball which have dozens of games going on per week? Do you not understand the differences which are inherent in the various sports? Like I said in my last post, you are not capable of discussing this topic because you are unable to discern the differences between the various sports and the fans who watch them. The Boston Red Sox are playing 5 games in the next 5 days. A Sox fan wlll watch each game. An Andre Ward fan has not seen their favorite boxer in the ring for 19 MONTHS. A Cotto fan did not see his favorite for 12 MONTHS. Can you not see a huge fvcking difference there? Are you blind or just willfully ignorant? It doesn't have to compete with them, it has to find it's niche which it clearly occupies. Most Baseball games are on local cable stations same with basketball and hockey. There are only a couple national games a week. Do you not get that? We are talking just national TV not local TV deal. Big difference, do you not see that? If people like PBC fights they will tune in to watch most PBC get to know the guys and know when they are fighting, they may not like some. That would be the market sorting it out though. Boxing is different that is true, but that does not mean that it will not work in much the same way because of those differences as there are always new guys emerging. Talk about not seeing things yet bringing up totally unrelated stuff to a national TV contract and throwing a fit about it~