Mayweather - Maidana 2 - echoes of RJJ - Tarver 2?

Not only are your points debatable to put it politely but you are splitting hairs. This fight is very similar from a historical and psychological perspective. a) Tarver, like Chino was emboldened by his previous success. Much as with Roy....the Patina of invincability has come off of Mayweather for this fight. Chino like Tarver believes in himself and will not be held off. b) Jones like Floyd believed he could make adjustments because in the past both guys had a way of doing so...thing is if you look carefully one can see that in both fights the adjustments required are more a matter of youth than technical matters: Roy and Floyd lost their legs. more later, got to run Yeah, you nailed it. The first time I watched Mayweather-Maidana I noticed the loss of legs (which had been slowly taking place). The subsequent times I saw how Maidana would catch Floyd with the jab in the center of the ring because for all his defensive skill Floyd, like Ali, Jones, etc, often uses his reflexes to jump out of the way or pull his head away. There were times when he didn't even flinch when a right came his way and ate it square all because he wasn't fast enough to react. I love rematches like this -- it's why I loved Pacquiao-Bradley II even though most thought Pacquiao won the first fight handily. A highly intriguing and important match-up with historic implications.

Some guys are unable to understand the difference between actual defensive skill, and the ability to use your cat-like reflexes to your advantage. RJJ, if you were to watch all of his fights (As I have, since I have the collection) used his feet to leap\propel himself abound his opponents at unbelievable speeds. And that was RJJ's huge advantage over every opponent he faced. He didn't have James Toney, B-Hop, Floyd type of defensive skill, RJJ had incredible natural reflexes and movement. I agree with a lot of your points but I think you underrate Jones' defensive skill. I think some people make the same mistake with Ali too, forgetting that those guys could stand in front of you and make you miss with beautiful head movement, slipping and using their legs. Just like one Pernell Whitaker, who is considered a defensive legend. All three had very unorthodox styles with sound technical roots. It's why they excelled on the amateur level and professional. Or else they would've been on the levels of Naseem Hamed, Meldrick Taylor or even Zab Judah. Mayweather has a lot of different defensive styles. It's really brilliant. And that might help him last longer but, ultimately, he too will lose once those reflexes and legs go. I do believe that there is a way that a great fighter can combine their wisdom, a great gameplan and whatever athleticism they have left to give one last great performance. I'll be watching very closely to see if Floyd can do that or if his day of reckoning has arrived.

The differences extend far beyond what you stated ... RJJ never had even a rudimentary level of defensive skill because he relied heavily on his reflexes and speed. Adding to that easy observation, the fact that Floyd doesn't get caught clean -- A result of his defensive prowess. For aging fighters, the reflexes or their response timing are the first thing to deteriorate. And RJJ, having made a career off of his incredible reflexes was the most vulnerable as he got older. Floyd being a defensive fighter by training and habit, relies on that to win fights and in his case it hasn't diminished much. Maidana has several very bad flaws that will be exposed and exploited in this fight - He has horrible balance and cannot fight going backward. Being a raging bull in the ring has its advantages, but when faced with an opponent that has a very good inside game, that same bull will become neutered very quickly. In all honesty, I don't see any comparisons between RJJ\Tarver and Floyd\Maidana 1 or 2, with the one exception that Floyd is aging and Maidana is younger. Any comparison between Tarver and Maidana would conclude rather quickly when considering that Tarver was a pretty good boxer and Maidana is not seen as having good boxing technique. Not only are your points debatable to put it politely but you are splitting hairs. This fight is very similar from a historical and psychological perspective. a) Tarver, like Chino was emboldened by his previous success. Much as with Roy....the Patina of invincability has come off of Mayweather for this fight. Chino like Tarver believes in himself and will not be held off. b) Jones like Floyd believed he could make adjustments because in the past both guys had a way of doing so...thing is if you look carefully one can see that in both fights the adjustments required are more a matter of youth than technical matters: Roy and Floyd lost their legs. more later, got to run

Roy Jones used a young man's style of fighting. You have to be young, energetic, fast, have prime reflexes, timing and all that. Fighters who used a similar(not exactly the same) style are Sergio Martinez, Yuriorkis Gamboa, Joan Guzman, and Jean Pascal. And what do you know? Martinez is too old to pull off the style, Gamboa is 33 and although he still has something left he has slowed down a bit, you all saw what happened to Guzman as he got into his mid 30s, Pascal is still young at 31 but you will also see as he gets into his mid 30s he'll also slow down. Floyd Mayweather on the other hand, uses more of an old man's, fundamentally sound style, and has been using it basically since he got to 147lbs. Other fighters who use a similar style are Guillermo Rigondeaux and Erislandy Lara. I can't say Broner because all he does is shoulder roll and nothing else. Hopkins, Ward, Andrade use a different style, it's also fundamentally sound and defensive. You don't exactly need fast reflexes for those styles that Mayweather, Rig, Lara, Hopkins, Ward uses. More like Timing, space and countering. You need good reflexes for the style that Jones, Martinez, Pascal, Guzman used/use.

Come on now..Floyd is clearly better defensive then Roy... No doubt Floyd Is a great defensive fighter. But he Is no RJJ as far as talent and as a complete fighter. Roy Jones had It all.

A simple update to a famous quote, relevant to the characters now involved. "What's you excuse going to be tonight, Roid?"

No defensive skill? Really? His head movement and foot speed was amazing. Mayweather shouldn't even be mentioned In the same sentence as RJJ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPU5qFJAJGg Come on now..Floyd is clearly better defensive then Roy...

Floyd is roided up for this one. Hopefully Chino is too so it'll be equal

Do these comparisons stem from the same scorecard tallys?

Naw this will be more like Leonard-Duran 2

The differences extend far beyond what you stated ... RJJ never had even a rudimentary level of defensive skill because he relied heavily on his reflexes and speed. Adding to that easy observation, the fact that Floyd doesn't get caught clean -- A result of his defensive prowess. For aging fighters, the reflexes or their response timing are the first thing to deteriorate. And RJJ, having made a career off of his incredible reflexes was the most vulnerable as he got older. Floyd being a defensive fighter by training and habit, relies on that to win fights and in his case it hasn't diminished much. Maidana has several very bad flaws that will be exposed and exploited in this fight - He has horrible balance and cannot fight going backward. Being a raging bull in the ring has its advantages, but when faced with an opponent that has a very good inside game, that same bull will become neutered very quickly. In all honesty, I don't see any comparisons between RJJ\Tarver and Floyd\Maidana 1 or 2, with the one exception that Floyd is aging and Maidana is younger. Any comparison between Tarver and Maidana would conclude rather quickly when considering that Tarver was a pretty good boxer and Maidana is not seen as having good boxing technique. No defensive skill? Really? His head movement and foot speed was amazing. Mayweather shouldn't even be mentioned In the same sentence as RJJ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPU5qFJAJGg

the main differene is roy jones' defense was his footspeed mayweather has a pretty good fundamental defense but you never know Some guys are unable to understand the difference between actual defensive skill, and the ability to use your cat-like reflexes to your advantage. RJJ, if you were to watch all of his fights (As I have, since I have the collection) used his feet to leap\propel himself abound his opponents at unbelievable speeds. And that was RJJ's huge advantage over every opponent he faced. He didn't have James Toney, B-Hop, Floyd type of defensive skill, RJJ had incredible natural reflexes and movement.

the main differene is roy jones' defense was his footspeed mayweather has a pretty good fundamental defense but you never know

Could you expand on that in a manner that would be easily digested :lol1: You really think Roy Jones Jr. could have been as good as he was, or beat the fighters he beat as easily as he did, if he didn't have the skill to complement his physical ability? A rudimentary level of defensive skill is like, Brandon Rios. To say Roy Jones Jr. didn't have that is wrong. No argument, no discussion, just wrong.

I think it will be somewhat similar, but not in a shocking ko. I think it will be a sustained beatdown.

That is f*cking absurd. Completely, indisputably incorrect. Could you expand on that in a manner that would be easily digested :lol1:

I dont' see it. I think Floyd will be as sharp as ever tonight. I see him going the Guerrero route: right hand lead, dash out. He's not exchanging with Chino, but he's gonna win a clean cut decision.

BTW, DiegoJ ..... Good post!!! Sent you some Green Very uncommon for guys joining after 2012.

The differences extend far beyond what you stated ... RJJ never had even a rudimentary level of defensive skill because he relied heavily on his reflexes and speed. Adding to that easy observation, the fact that Floyd doesn't get caught clean -- A result of his defensive prowess. That is f*cking absurd. Completely, indisputably incorrect.

There are differences, of course, but there are also some similarities. Directly prior to his victory in the first bout with Tarver, RJJ had the most notable win of his career, over Ruiz. Similarly, Mayweather's win over Canelo was one of his most impressive. At the time people were puzzled why RJJ fought Tarver, just as there was an element of surprise when Mayweather chose to fight Maidana. Most scored the first RJJ - Tarver fight in favour of RJJ, but it was close and some questioned the merit of the decision. Again, quite similar to Mayweather - Maidana I. In the immediate aftermath, Maidana, like Tarver before him, bleated incessantly about the decision, to the point where the champion offered the rematch. Now, stylistically there are differences between the respective fighters in both of these fights, but Mayweather, like Jones at that time, is in the twilight of his career. Maidana and Tarver are different characters and have different attributes as fighters, but Maidana has unbridled confidence and an unshakable conviction that he is the one to dethrone Mayweather - just like Tarver thought a decade ago before his rematch with RJJ. History has a habit of repeating itself, but in saying all of that, I still think Mayweather will win by UD. I wonder if Maidana will say anything to Mayweather when the referee asks both fighters to tocuh gloves, though... The differences extend far beyond what you stated ... RJJ never had even a rudimentary level of defensive skill because he relied heavily on his reflexes and speed. Adding to that easy observation, the fact that Floyd doesn't get caught clean -- A result of his defensive prowess. For aging fighters, the reflexes or their response timing are the first thing to deteriorate. And RJJ, having made a career off of his incredible reflexes was the most vulnerable as he got older. Floyd being a defensive fighter by training and habit, relies on that to win fights and in his case it hasn't diminished much. Maidana has several very bad flaws that will be exposed and exploited in this fight - He has horrible balance and cannot fight going backward. Being a raging bull in the ring has its advantages, but when faced with an opponent that has a very good inside game, that same bull will become neutered very quickly. In all honesty, I don't see any comparisons between RJJ\Tarver and Floyd\Maidana 1 or 2, with the one exception that Floyd is aging and Maidana is younger. Any comparison between Tarver and Maidana would conclude rather quickly when considering that Tarver was a pretty good boxer and Maidana is not seen as having good boxing technique.