Ali fought the best?

Can't believe we're even comparing Ali and Mayweather. when people could not keep straight to the topic then one may decide to give them a dose or two of their own medicine..

Can't believe we're even comparing Ali and Mayweather.

Oh Ali beat George alright, I'm not disputing that! But in none of Floyd's fights was there anything LIKE the method of victory Ali hit upon. Ali didn't use any kind of methods like Floyd to aid his performance? What about the use of illegal smelling salts for one! What about all the gift decisions, point to a single other boxer who's career was more manufactured than Ali's? Not even Wilders! (He just cherry picked but nobody is crediting him as the greatest are they!) We already established that I don't like Floyd either, and sure he quacked out of Pac badly. But in absolute quality terms there's no comparison between Floyds opponents and Ali's except Ali's opponents were nominally "the best opponents at the time" which they were, CREDIT to ALI for that! But Pac aside, who did Floyd miss? If you want to talk about Pac and Floyd, I'll school Floyd with you but leave that joker from the 70's out of it! as you evaded most of the questions i threw at you... i might as well go back down the floor laughing myself to tears ha ha ha ha

now, ali's win over george is not convincing eh? and floyd's win over ortiz, maidana, castillo 1 were convincing for you? and you again put forth foul play on ali's part? any factual substantiation to support this? it is clear that you try to diminish ali's accomplishment to perk up floyd's stock... anyway, the thread is really about ali fought the best, doesn't it? that is what matters... ali did get hurt, yes....but sure you understand getting hurt is part of boxing... again, ali did get hurt, yes...but i don't recall ali compelling his foe to change gloves in the 11th hour.....as floyd did recently...wonder why floyd did that? because floyd also get hurt in the business called boxing...he also bleeds and aches..that's why health comes first...that's why he has hand injections...that's why he wanted no part of pac who can hurt him real bad... or are your idolatry of floyd make you so blind to see these? Oh Ali beat George alright, I'm not disputing that! But in none of Floyd's fights was there anything LIKE the method of victory Ali hit upon. Ali didn't use any kind of methods like Floyd to aid his performance? What about the use of illegal smelling salts for one! What about all the gift decisions, point to a single other boxer who's career was more manufactured than Ali's? Not even Wilders! (He just cherry picked but nobody is crediting him as the greatest are they!) We already established that I don't like Floyd either, and sure he quacked out of Pac badly. But in absolute quality terms there's no comparison between Floyds opponents and Ali's except Ali's opponents were nominally "the best opponents at the time" which they were, CREDIT to ALI for that! But Pac aside, who did Floyd miss? If you want to talk about Pac and Floyd, I'll school Floyd with you but leave that joker from the 70's out of it!

Ali fought the best available opponents, barring a Foreman rematch. If that's what you want to hear, fine! He did not beat him as convincingly as you claim. He got the living **** beaten out of him and won through highly unconventional and unrepeatable means and there was plenty of speculation of foul play too. Funny he gave other fighters rematch but not Foreman where there was most question of all about the outcome of a rematch (?) Anyway Floyd only ever ducked 1 fighter without question (Pac), you can question his timing, as I do too of other fighters but he didn't duck them! There are great parallels here. Excuses are made for Ali in this sense too, funny how as soon as Ali started to struggle/lose in the 70's he was claimed to be "past" it, yet in the 60's where most claim he was prime there was not the same quality of opposition was there? Seems to me a very similar scenario compared to accusations made against Floyd! now, ali's win over george is not convincing eh? and floyd's win over ortiz, maidana, castillo 1 were convincing for you? and you again put forth foul play on ali's part? any factual substantiation to support this? it is clear that you try to diminish ali's accomplishment to perk up floyd's stock... anyway, the thread is really about ali fought the best, doesn't it? that is what matters... ali did get hurt, yes....but sure you understand getting hurt is part of boxing... again, ali did get hurt, yes...but i don't recall ali compelling his foe to change gloves in the 11th hour.....as floyd did recently...wonder why floyd did that? because floyd also get hurt in the business called boxing...he also bleeds and aches..that's why health comes first...that's why he has hand injections...that's why he wanted no part of pac who can hurt him real bad... or are your idolatry of floyd make you so blind to see these?

now, this sends me back to the floor laughing myself to tears ha ha ha Ali fought the best available opponents, barring a Foreman rematch. If that's what you want to hear, fine! He did not beat him as convincingly as you claim. He got the living **** beaten out of him and won through highly unconventional and unrepeatable means and there was plenty of speculation of foul play too. Funny he gave other fighters rematch but not Foreman where there was most question of all about the outcome of a rematch (?) Anyway Floyd only ever ducked 1 fighter without question (Pac), you can question his timing, as I do too of other fighters but he didn't duck them! There are great parallels here. Excuses are made for Ali in this sense too, funny how as soon as Ali started to struggle/lose in the 70's he was claimed to be "past" it, yet in the 60's where most claim he was prime there was not the same quality of opposition was there? Seems to me a very similar scenario compared to accusations made against Floyd!

In the judah/baldimir days, the call was for margarito...that didn't happen but its all good... After hatton there was the 2 year layoff, where you had cotto, williams, pac, and a fresher Shane...instead we got a weight cheated marquez, and a ton of excuses to not get a prime pac fight..that wasn't all good... There will always be someone for Floyd to face. Remember when he retired and people were saying, "Marquez?! Of course he's taking on Marquez, he'd never fight a real welterweight like Shane Mosley. Hell, he'd never fight Cotto!" He took care of both of those by beating them in UD. Now that they're both out of the way, the two excuses will be: 1-) Past their prime 2-) They were never on Mayweather's level anyway I am almost sure that if the Pacquiao/Mayweather fight were to be pulled off, the next person non-sense boxing fans would be calling for Floyd to fight would be Gennady Golovkin...which at 160 would be asinine. And yes, I'm well aware that Leonard came out of a four year retirement to face THE guy at 160...but that doesn't necessarily mean that every single fighter is going to do that...nor does it automatically mean that Floyd is a poor fighter.

Point blank. Period. I've posted the following several times but just to reiterate the point, in 2006 when Floyd was getting ready to fight a Judah coming off of the loss to Baldomir, he was interviewed by Brian Kenny on ESPN: At 1:20, he criticized Mayweather for choosing to fight Zab Judah instead of going after Baldomir (who became ring champion by beating Zab). His argument against fighting Judah was that Judah had lost against Baldomir, so the luster of the fight had diminished. At 5:55, Brian asks Floyd if he'd go after Ricky Hatton. Floyd brushes him off by saying he can go after him next . In essence, not only did Floyd take out two names that Brian threw at him, but along the way he took out Zab Judah and Oscar de la Hoya along the way as bonuses...while becoming a major money maker and becoming the biggest boxing star. Years later, when Floyd came out of retirement in 2009 to fight Juan Manuel Marquez, he was on ESPN again being interviewed by Brian Kenny. It didn't take long before Brian started criticizing Floyd's comeback opponent. Things got heated, and as both are shouting, Brian suggests Shane Mosley (who mere months before had demolished Antonio Margarito in brutal fashion). Here it is at 8:25... After the Marquez fight, we all know what happened. Mosley called Floyd out, Floyd followed up by making the fight, and after it was over, a lot of people flip-flopped and said Mosley was over-the-hill. People just need someone to hate and Floyd is a big target. You can truly tell how ignorant a lot of people are in general when you genuinely follow, read, and learn about a subject and then listen to what someone who just is a casual participant says. Look at youtube comments, there's so much garbage spewed everywhere; such one-sided information. Bottom line: It doesn't matter who Floyd fights, the better he looks, the more people will nitpick. The more dominant he is, ironically enough, the less credit he gets. The grand majority of casual viewers believe it has to do with something being wrong in the opposite fighter than Floyd being that good. People criticize him easily. Why? Because he is held to a higher standard. Why is he held to a higher standard? Because he is THAT good. If you take Michael Katsidis, Joshua Clottey, Juan Díaz, Paulie Malignaggi or any other (B-) to (A) level fighter and put him through Floyd's last 10 opponents, I guarantee you the criticism would not be as rampant. The casual observer that only catches 2-3 fights per year watches these 24/7's/All Access shows and truly believe that they see Apollo Creed and that he must be brought down. The quote that best comes to mind to sum up this general perception is Dave Chapelle's: "If you got hate in your heart, let it out!" :rofl: In the judah/baldimir days, the call was for margarito...that didn't happen but its all good... After hatton there was the 2 year layoff, where you had cotto, williams, pac, and a fresher Shane...instead we got a weight cheated marquez, and a ton of excuses to not get a prime pac fight..that wasn't all good...

Point blank. Period. I've posted the following several times but just to reiterate the point, in 2006 when Floyd was getting ready to fight a Judah coming off of the loss to Baldomir, he was interviewed by Brian Kenny on ESPN: At 1:20, he criticized Mayweather for choosing to fight Zab Judah instead of going after Baldomir (who became ring champion by beating Zab). His argument against fighting Judah was that Judah had lost against Baldomir, so the luster of the fight had diminished. At 5:55, Brian asks Floyd if he'd go after Ricky Hatton. Floyd brushes him off by saying he can go after him next . In essence, not only did Floyd take out two names that Brian threw at him, but along the way he took out Zab Judah and Oscar de la Hoya along the way as bonuses...while becoming a major money maker and becoming the biggest boxing star. Years later, when Floyd came out of retirement in 2009 to fight Juan Manuel Marquez, he was on ESPN again being interviewed by Brian Kenny. It didn't take long before Brian started criticizing Floyd's comeback opponent. Things got heated, and as both are shouting, Brian suggests Shane Mosley (who mere months before had demolished Antonio Margarito in brutal fashion). Here it is at 8:25... After the Marquez fight, we all know what happened. Mosley called Floyd out, Floyd followed up by making the fight, and after it was over, a lot of people flip-flopped and said Mosley was over-the-hill. People just need someone to hate and Floyd is a big target. You can truly tell how ignorant a lot of people are in general when you genuinely follow, read, and learn about a subject and then listen to what someone who just is a casual participant says. Look at youtube comments, there's so much garbage spewed everywhere; such one-sided information. Bottom line: It doesn't matter who Floyd fights, the better he looks, the more people will nitpick. The more dominant he is, ironically enough, the less credit he gets. The grand majority of casual viewers believe it has to do with something being wrong in the opposite fighter than Floyd being that good. People criticize him easily. Why? Because he is held to a higher standard. Why is he held to a higher standard? Because he is THAT good. If you take Michael Katsidis, Joshua Clottey, Juan Díaz, Paulie Malignaggi or any other (B-) to (A) level fighter and put him through Floyd's last 10 opponents, I guarantee you the criticism would not be as rampant. The casual observer that only catches 2-3 fights per year watches these 24/7's/All Access shows and truly believe that they see Apollo Creed and that he must be brought down. The quote that best comes to mind to sum up this general perception is Dave Chapelle's: "If you got hate in your heart, let it out!" :rofl: Hey man, if ya self proclaim ya self the best eva, if ya can't stand the heat, get out the kitchen

He said Floyd never fought a #1 welterweight...and clearly he did..twice! He beat Judah, the previous #1 and everyone claimed he was ducking Baldomir. He then fight Baldomir and then of course he now claimed to to be a tin can. When he came back he fought the consensus #1 ranked welterweight in Mosley. Hate Floyd as much as you want, but the guy fights the top guy in the division the majority of the time. Pac was #2 at the time, but he was what.. 3 divisions below what Floyd was when he retired? Your point makes no sense. You can't put all the blame on Floyd for the fight not happening, there is blame on both sides. Point blank. Period. I've posted the following several times but just to reiterate the point, in 2006 when Floyd was getting ready to fight a Judah coming off of the loss to Baldomir, he was interviewed by Brian Kenny on ESPN: At 1:20, he criticized Mayweather for choosing to fight Zab Judah instead of going after Baldomir (who became ring champion by beating Zab). His argument against fighting Judah was that Judah had lost against Baldomir, so the luster of the fight had diminished. At 5:55, Brian asks Floyd if he'd go after Ricky Hatton. Floyd brushes him off by saying he can go after him next . In essence, not only did Floyd take out two names that Brian threw at him, but along the way he took out Zab Judah and Oscar de la Hoya along the way as bonuses...while becoming a major money maker and becoming the biggest boxing star. Years later, when Floyd came out of retirement in 2009 to fight Juan Manuel Marquez, he was on ESPN again being interviewed by Brian Kenny. It didn't take long before Brian started criticizing Floyd's comeback opponent. Things got heated, and as both are shouting, Brian suggests Shane Mosley (who mere months before had demolished Antonio Margarito in brutal fashion). Here it is at 8:25... After the Marquez fight, we all know what happened. Mosley called Floyd out, Floyd followed up by making the fight, and after it was over, a lot of people flip-flopped and said Mosley was over-the-hill. People just need someone to hate and Floyd is a big target. You can truly tell how ignorant a lot of people are in general when you genuinely follow, read, and learn about a subject and then listen to what someone who just is a casual participant says. Look at youtube comments, there's so much garbage spewed everywhere; such one-sided information. Bottom line: It doesn't matter who Floyd fights, the better he looks, the more people will nitpick. The more dominant he is, ironically enough, the less credit he gets. The grand majority of casual viewers believe it has to do with something being wrong in the opposite fighter than Floyd being that good. People criticize him easily. Why? Because he is held to a higher standard. Why is he held to a higher standard? Because he is THAT good. If you take Michael Katsidis, Joshua Clottey, Juan Díaz, Paulie Malignaggi or any other (B-) to (A) level fighter and put him through Floyd's last 10 opponents, I guarantee you the criticism would not be as rampant. The casual observer that only catches 2-3 fights per year watches these 24/7's/All Access shows and truly believe that they see Apollo Creed and that he must be brought down. The quote that best comes to mind to sum up this general perception is Dave Chapelle's: "If you got hate in your heart, let it out!" :rofl:

Spreading the truth, that's why! now, this sends me back to the floor laughing myself to tears ha ha ha

how are you still not in the red? :smashfrea Spreading the truth, that's why!

well, i'm off the floor from laughing now elroy..... let me put you to the test point by point (in blue font)..... "Ill regard everything written by the retards above you since they bring nothing fresh, just blind dismissal or, agenda driven or delusional garbage. (You a retard? I am sure I'm not) For you however, YES of course, if he were not protecting his precious "0" anymore, of course he'd fight more and seek to prove himself more, he would have had too. And I would have LOVED to see him lose as I still do, I am disgusted by Mayweather personally almost as much as by Akli, they were 2 of the most disgraceful guys in the sport! (Very touching but irrelevant) Fact is it's a business and being the unbeaten bad guy gives him his marketability. Pac on the other hand has loss several times but his personality, and his crushing style earned him the love and respect of fans. Floyd on the other hand would be damaged greatly by losing the 0 because he is mostly hated. (Again, very irrelevant) But I can also see it that there has always been great pressure for Floyd to remain unbeaten. And it cannot be said that Floyd ducked the best fighters, he did fight MOST of them except for Pac), Ali never rematched Foreman and fixed atleast the 2nd Liston fight if not more. (You love to put in unsubstantiated accusations on fixing games; any factual proof? Ali beat George very convincingly; so he felt no need for a rematch. Floyd rematched castillo and will rematch maidana for floyd felt he needed to assert himself over these two as their first fights were very close; most felt he lost to castillo in the first). It's not Ali's fault that he didn't fight many decent opponents but truth be told it was a very weak era over all and there wasn't really much talent around. (Now, here is where you went astray. Did ali fought the best? that's the thread...nothing about "decent opponents" whatever that means..) Credit for Ali that he was more courageous than Floyd seemingly but then again Ali's entire career was based on struggling to beat his opponents. Floyd's is based on dominance. Ali was a messy fighter who was lucky at times and gifted often. Floyd for the most part shut down and outclassed some of the most skilful and elite athletes ever to lace up a pair of gloves with the added pressure to remain unbeaten. That's nothing to be taken lightly my friend. Even I would admit that." (Again, this borders to an irrelevant piece of opinion; yes, you're entitled to it.......but the point is by your own words floyd DID NOT fight the best...just MOST...and again, for me ali fought the best while floyd just fought "decent" ones he he he again whatever that means)

Im of the impression that any professional fight vs a top ranked opponent is a risk, Floyd is just held to a higher standard here because of how good he is i guess, which is why when hes hit or hurt people go crazy like he wasnt in the ring with a professional fighter, trained by a professional trainer, who is ranked and paid to kick ass, but overall i understand your argument, he has some pretty weak fights under his belt as most of the greats do, and took fights where he knew he could exploit something but my question is, when did it become wrong to fight an opponent with weaknesses you thought you could potentially exploit? isnt that what all boxers do when they study thier opponent to form a game plan? but i can dig it bro im really just here passing time at work! lol Even if the fighter is ranked, it doesn't necessarily translate into a tough/risky opponent. For example, you have a fighter that moves up a division and beats 1 ranked fighter and then gets ranked and all hyped up .... to me, in most cases, I need to see more!

LOL If a person thinks Floyd is TBE thats their opinion it doesnt make them a fool, but for arguments sake which is what men do when it comes to sports it is what it is, and i understand why it bothers some to see him called that... his resume isnt TBE but as far as boxing talent and ring IQ hes up there IMO. like some people say SSR was TBE but how many of those fans actually watched all of his fights? there are some very dilligent boxing fans out there who have put in the work to watch most of all the greats fights but not all of us... alot of people judge who TBE is by who they grew up watching, its all just personal opinion, same with ATG list. Lol. Floyd may not even be the best of his own era

I actually watched Ali live ..... but the difference with Ali is that he went looking for trouble. Meaning, he actually fought the tough fights where people gave his opponent a very good chance of not only beating Ali but KOing him decisively. So here we are in a thread where Floyd fans are trying to tell us that Floyd is TBE and trying to put down Ali but until your resume shows that as a fact ...... YOU ARE NOT TBE!!! wow!! thats great i bet that was a great memory, im out tho! nice debating wit u ill be back monday! peace have a good weekend!

Then you came to the wrong thread buddy! This thread IS about Floyd vs Ali's and who fought the best. Having a guy with more weight does not mean that the guy with more weight will be the odds on favorite to win the fight ..... I brought up some of the reasons and more importantly, who Floyd picked. Weight is important if you can use it to your advantage but Floyd picked flat-footed fighters where he felt that they couldn't use it to their advantage or that it would eventually gas them (become a hindrance) Floyd was the odds on favourite against those bigger guys. If he took on someone his own size or just a bit bigger or a bit smaller and the odds were against Floyd, then that would be a story in itself BUT Floyd doesn't risk his precious "0" .... so that is why we don't get those fights. but you can continue to talk theoretically .... go ahead. Im of the impression that any professional fight vs a top ranked opponent is a risk, Floyd is just held to a higher standard here because of how good he is i guess, which is why when hes hit or hurt people go crazy like he wasnt in the ring with a professional fighter, trained by a professional trainer, who is ranked and paid to kick ass, but overall i understand your argument, he has some pretty weak fights under his belt as most of the greats do, and took fights where he knew he could exploit something but my question is, when did it become wrong to fight an opponent with weaknesses you thought you could potentially exploit? isnt that what all boxers do when they study thier opponent to form a game plan? but i can dig it bro im really just here passing time at work! lol

LOL If a person thinks Floyd is TBE thats their opinion it doesnt make them a fool, but for arguments sake which is what men do when it comes to sports it is what it is, and i understand why it bothers some to see him called that... his resume isnt TBE but as far as boxing talent and ring IQ hes up there IMO. like some people say SSR was TBE but how many of those fans actually watched all of his fights? there are some very dilligent boxing fans out there who have put in the work to watch most of all the greats fights but not all of us... alot of people judge who TBE is by who they grew up watching, its all just personal opinion, same with ATG list. I actually watched Ali live ..... but the difference with Ali is that he went looking for trouble. Meaning, he actually fought the tough fights where people gave his opponent a very good chance of not only beating Ali but KOing him decisively. So here we are in a thread where Floyd fans are trying to tell us that Floyd is TBE and trying to put down Ali but until your resume shows that as a fact ...... YOU ARE NOT TBE!!!

I feel you but when you have fools yelling floyd tbe and all the nonsense, you gotta be ready to combat the bs spewn by elroy and the floyd spin doctors LOL If a person thinks Floyd is TBE thats their opinion it doesnt make them a fool, but for arguments sake which is what men do when it comes to sports it is what it is, and i understand why it bothers some to see him called that... his resume isnt TBE but as far as boxing talent and ring IQ hes up there IMO. like some people say SSR was TBE but how many of those fans actually watched all of his fights? there are some very dilligent boxing fans out there who have put in the work to watch most of all the greats fights but not all of us... alot of people judge who TBE is by who they grew up watching, its all just personal opinion, same with ATG list.

Comparing Floyd to Ali resume wise. If you have the time please sit down and watch this video from Blood. It's a pretty good breakdown and it'll inform and give a lot of these newbie Floyd stans somewhere to start. Floyd can't hold Ali's jockstrap.