Who has a greater legacy? Hopkins vs Jones Jr

Both Tito and Oscar won titles at MW before facing Bhop, so they didn't move up to face him. McCallum was washed up, Toney was weightdrained (his own fault, I know) and Hopkins wasn't a top P4P fighter when they fought in 93. That's subjective. 16? Are we counting amateur career now? Stupid argument. How many casuals know about Willie Pep and Archie Moore? You can pretty much derate anyones resume like that. At the time Roy beat Hopkins, he was on a run and it was both of their first title shots. They both got better afterwards and it was clear that Roy had the advantage for about a decade following that fight. In the Toney fight, the weight loss was just an excuse. He got bested by a better fighter. Humiliated actually. Mccallum was getting on in age when Roy fought him but he was still at the top of the division. Roy shut him out on the cards and dropped him when he had never been stopped before. See, two can play that game.

Straight up. Yeah why do people keep trotting out that crap about Roy tarnishing his legacy? Almost all the best p4p guys were losing to people that wouldn't have sniffed their cracks in their primes. Nobody around now who bothers learning about the sport is forgetting about Charles and Pep and Robinson. RJJ's no different or Holyfield or whoever. What they did and who they were ain't going anywhere even if they fight till they're 60 and get knocked out 50 times. They're not erasing history. And anybody care if Hopkins loses to Dawson in his late forties? Not me. He's still a great fighter. Exactly, Ali lost to a 6-0-1 fighter when he was 1 year older than Roy was when he got knocked out by Tarver. People seem to forget that not every fighter ages the same and some styles, like Hopkins.

Roy tarnished his legacy, all i'm pointing out. He could've left when he was a king, or even after Antonio dropped him. But like many, he had to embarrass himself. He has only tarnished his legacy to those narrow minded enough to think he actually lost when he still was in his prime. All fighters lose if they stay in the game long enough and face top competition.

Both Tito and Oscar won titles at MW before facing Bhop, so they didn't move up to face him. McCallum was washed up, Toney was weightdrained (his own fault, I know) and Hopkins wasn't a top P4P fighter when they fought in 93. I'm not only talking about Tito and Oscar. I'll give him probs for both of those, because they were good fighters (especially Tito at that stage). But he hasn't really beaten anyone great who campaigned at MW for a longer time. His best wins campaigned at WW or even lower sometimes. Look at Brown for example. Not only was he way past his prime, but was really a career welter. Jackson was well past his sell by date, same as you claimed McCallum to be. His best wins at MW would probably be Oscar, Tito, Johnson, G. Johnson, Holmes and Brown. Are they ATG MWs? Any of them? No. Other than these guys, a look down his record will show you a list of incredibly weak MWs. But it was a very weak era as well as the Super Middleweight divison was really the place to be through the 90s after it was created. With regards to Toney, that's just an excuse. I know he was weight drained, but that is not Jones' fault in anyway shape or form. Jones dominated a prime James Toney like a man vs a boy. That win is better than anything Hopkins has on his entire resume. At the time Hopkins and Jones fought, he was considered a very good fighter. He had gotten himself in a position to fight for the MW belt, and was older than Jones, so it's not like he was fresh of the ABC. I take nothing away from Hopkins, he's a great champion and has done a lot of things for boxing. But Jones overall entertainment value, winning belts in more weightclasses and beating several ATGs, incl. Hopkins, puts him slightly ahead imo.

Whilst all that is true, that doesn't make his resume particularly better if you break down who he beat. Look at his middleweight resume for example, there's a whole lot of unknowns in there. There's also a lot of fighters moving up in weight to face him, not established middleweights and smaller guys. Roy Jones beat better fighters than Hopkins did, plus he was lightheavy champion, supermiddleweight champion and won a version of the heavyweight championship. Not to mention he beat some ATGs for their weightclass in Mike McCallum, Toney and of course Hopkins himself. Both Tito and Oscar won titles at MW before facing Bhop, so they didn't move up to face him. McCallum was washed up, Toney was weightdrained (his own fault, I know) and Hopkins wasn't a top P4P fighter when they fought in 93. the best H2H fighter to ever live That's subjective. basically ruled and hardly lost rounds from the age of 16-35 yrs old 16? Are we counting amateur career now? At the end of the day - Jones will be remembered by casuals, Hopkins will not. Stupid argument. How many casuals know about Willie Pep and Archie Moore?

exactly. just like tommy hearns won the longevity battle with ray leonard. but he'll never be considered greater. no knock against hopkins. roy was simply better. Straight up. did Ezzard Charles tarnish his legacy? Yeah why do people keep trotting out that crap about Roy tarnishing his legacy? Almost all the best p4p guys were losing to people that wouldn't have sniffed their cracks in their primes. Nobody around now who bothers learning about the sport is forgetting about Charles and Pep and Robinson. RJJ's no different or Holyfield or whoever. What they did and who they were ain't going anywhere even if they fight till they're 60 and get knocked out 50 times. They're not erasing history. And anybody care if Hopkins loses to Dawson in his late forties? Not me. He's still a great fighter.

Both are extremely overrated as far as all-time standings go. Roy being the lesser of two evils when placing them.

Benn was done by 95. It was 96, but thanks for looking at boxrec.

who roy fought in his next fight. this was in 99. his last fight was 97. looking for a check is right. Excuses, the myth is the "euros" didn't want to fight, which isn't true. Nigel Benn wanted to fight too.

Roy in his prime was just a better fighter. The Purest hate it but its true. Who cares if his style did not hold up after his athleticism waned. He will be rightly remember as Super Man..............

"0" The number who beat Roy in his prime. Roy tarnished his legacy, all i'm pointing out. He could've left when he was a king, or even after Antonio dropped him. But like many, he had to embarrass himself.

an older guy at the bar over the weekend was talking about roy jones like hell never see anything like it ever again Accurate, because he won't. There was never a fighter like that before Roy and there's absolutely nothing resembling him boxing now. There will never be another Rjjr.

At the end of the day - Jones will be remembered by casuals, Hopkins will not.

Greater fighter? Greater legacy? Roy! Who won the longevity contest? Hopkins of course. Which is great for him but it doesn't mean he's greater. It never will. It strengthened his legacy a lot but he was still never at the level of Roy and nothing he did proved that he was. exactly. just like tommy hearns won the longevity battle with ray leonard. but he'll never be considered greater. no knock against hopkins. roy was simply better.

Greater fighter? Greater legacy? Roy! Who won the longevity contest? Hopkins of course. Which is great for him but it doesn't mean he's greater. It never will. It strengthened his legacy a lot but he was still never at the level of Roy and nothing he did proved that he was.

In his prime (from about '93 - 2004 when Tarver took his soul) Roy Jones Junior appeared absolutely unstoppable, for over a decade making even proven veterans look like club fighters. Whilst against the very best there were some tough battles, and there were a few guys who he never faced, he proved himself the outstanding fighter of his era from MW up to LHW. When the fall came, however it came hard and fast. Whether due to an over reliance on his gradually fading speed and athleticism , or a mental vulnerability, he was never the same again after the Tarver losses. Also, while it shouldn't be held against him, continuing to box on 'til the present, far beyond his prime has left him with a tatty record which dims the legacy of his glory days. Bernard Hopkins on the other hand, despite a late start in boxing dominated the 160lb division for a decade, finally losing at age 40 to an up and coming Jermain Taylor 13 years his junior. Moving up in weight at an age where most boxers have (or are thinking of) hung up their gloves, he proceeded to fight and win against the best at 175, having held at least one of the alphabet belts for most of the last 8 years, as well as becoming lineal champion twice (in addition to his 4 year MW lineal reign) At age 48 Bernard Hopkins is still fighting and beating champions who are approaching 20 years younger than him, breaking his own record for the oldest ever boxing world champion in March. Bernards longevity at the very top of the sport alone would guarantee his place as an ATG, since having won his first belt 18 years ago he has always either been a champion or in championship contention. In his 25 year career (which amusingly started with a loss) he has only been beaten by the very best in the world. A prime Roy Jones Junior beat Bernard Hopkins, and was a better fighter, but in terms of legacy, Bernard Hopkins will be seen, in the future, as one of the greatest boxers of all time. Great post!!!....green k :fing02:

Collins? Really? Collins looked for a pay check nothing more. He couldn't even beat Reggie Johnson. who roy fought in his next fight. this was in 99. his last fight was 97. looking for a check is right.

now it'd be send Jones around the world and see who drops him. "0" The number who beat Roy in his prime.

No its a video of Collins saying that he wanted to fight Jones and that he went to America to challenge him, followed by a clip of him doing just that at a Jones post fight interview. Yea, what you don't hear is that he would not accept short money when Roy was the P4P champ. Roy didn't duck him and just because he showed up to a fight means nothing. It happens all the time. Keep trying dude.

Send Hopkins around the world and see who knows him. now it'd be send Jones around the world and see who drops him.