Julio Cesar Chavez: GOAT

¿WHAT? umm ok? but you still did not address the statement that Duran is the best Mexican boxer of all time but from sillyness your responce i will not waste my time any longer. Too bad because i was up for a good logical debate, but that is NOT going to happen here. Good day my friend Ok. I'll answer the question. This poll is about who is the GOAT, not about who is the greatest Mexican boxer of all time. Is it possible that we could have a Mexican GOAT that is not the greatest Mexican boxer of all time? Yes indeed. It is possible. To be the GOAT, one has to have the numbers behind him. Chavez has that. Duran also has great numbers, but not quite up there with Chavez or Robinson. But, this is not to say that Duran could not beat either Chavez or Robinson on any given day. Duran could beat anybody in his weight class on any given day. He was a great, great fighter. What your question comes down to is the difference between ATG and GOAT. I hope I've addressed that for you because it seems to be causing alot of confusion to many.

Older boxers are allowed shamelessly pad their record. It's unbelievable how two faced boxing fans are. If one of today's fighters pads his record he's considered a bum chaser, the older guys on the other hand can do it all they want. Julio fought a guy who was 6-2 in the middle of his career. What exactly is the excuse for that? 31 title fight victories does not constitute a pad. That's the kind of granite that greatness is built upon. lol

Older boxers are allowed shamelessly pad their record. It's unbelievable how two faced boxing fans are. If one of today's fighters pads his record he's considered a bum chaser, the older guys on the other hand can do it all they want. Julio fought a guy who was 6-2 in the middle of his career. What exactly is the excuse for that?

Greatness is always gonna be subjective. There's not an equation for greatness. It's not a case of 88 wins = GOAT. It's not a case of "world titles" in 8 divisions = GOAT. Well more often times than not, you may notice that those that are legitimately talked about as GOAT, have the numbers behind them. In other words, without the numbers....no GOAT. That is a basic equation.

I hear your logic loud and clear. Perhaps Ezzerd was the greatest boxer to ever lace on gloves. Perhaps. Perhaps not. Surely, the same argument can be made for a host of ATGs. George Foreman for one. The flaw in your logic is that it is subjective and opinions are always debatable. At the end of the day, statistics have to be the difference because they give a factual determination to a fighter's entire career. In this respect Ezzerd doesn't stand a chance with fighters such as Chavez, Robinson, Duran...etc... Number of World Titles, number of Title defenses, length of reign, unbeaten streaks....these are all indicators of true greatness throughout a career. Greatness is always gonna be subjective. There's not an equation for greatness. It's not a case of 88 wins = GOAT. It's not a case of "world titles" in 8 divisions = GOAT.

I'm sorry I don't know that much history about JCC. but didn't he quit against Oscar? Yes or no? also didn't he lost against Pernell as well? Yes or no the Randall TD? Controversial? yes or no? JCC is an ATG.. but I don't think JMM will ever quit.. and he's 39 going on 40. If you quit once in a fight AT ANY STAGE of your career. imo it really does put a stain on your resume? 108 wins and 87 KOs erases stains. 87 wins in a row erases stains. 13 year undefeated streak erases stains (holds the record). 27 successful consecutive defenses of world titles erases stains (holds the record). 37 title fights erases stains (holds the record). 31 title fight victories erases stains (holds the record). 21 title defenses won by knockout erases stains (record tied with Joe Louis). By the time JMM gets to 87 fights, he should be about 65 years old, if my math is correct. When he gets there, we'll re-evaluate.

being seen on par with mike tyson means you're doing something right.

I'm sorry I don't know that much history about JCC. but didn't he quit against Oscar? Yes or no? also didn't he lost against Pernell as well? Yes or no the Randall TD? Controversial? yes or no? JCC is an ATG.. but I don't think JMM will ever quit.. and he's 39 going on 40. If you quit once in a fight AT ANY STAGE of your career. imo it really does put a stain on your resume? no man everyone quits, dela hoya did, duran did, tyson did etc... these people are humans.

How come nobody talks about how Prime JCC lost to Taylor and needed a ref to help him? If you don't watch HBO Legendary nights and don't get brain washed. THE REF'S job is to KNOW the time once 10 seconds count is on. Every ref will tell you they know when the 10 second count begins.. So STEELE KNEW 100% THERE WAS AROUND 1-2 SECONDS LEFT.... The refs job is to ensure the safety of the fighters. 10 or 100 seconds left is irrelevant. Twice Steele asked Taylor if he was OK, twice Taylor failed to acknowledge. Fight over. Btw, there five seconds left when the fight was waved off. The timekeeper was slow in stopping the clock.

One of Chavezs three greatest wins (along with the Camacho and Rosario wins). Hyena, I swear I'm not an azzhole, and I'm not prejudice, I just don't think Chavez is the GOAT, that all. I know your not an azzhole, Bob. You're a boxing guy. I hope you enjoyed that fight. That...was what true greatness looks like. And, its one of the best fights of all time.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wiley Hyena Look. Stop with the games. Those ole 1900 guys were tuff. Of course. But, they don't qualify as modern athletes, and you know it. Otherwise, my guy Jim Jeffries would be the GOAT. If you wanna argue, then argue, but don't get silly. What is silly about them being greater than Louis? Start a poll I dare ya don Hutson>>>jerry rice Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

I'm glad for your great post, Bob. Now, enjoy this fight. I post it to wish everybody a very happy new year. And, I hope it clearly comes thru. This is JCC v Meldrick Taylor. A contrast of great styles if there ever was one. For the youngsters, Taylor was an undefeated, a prior US olympic medalist, and considered to be the best of his generation when this fight took place. In fact, he was considered unbeatable. He was. And, then he met prime Chavez. Pay close attention to the deleterious effects of the body damage beginning in round 6. This was fight of the year in 1990. Enjoy. One of Chavezs three greatest wins (along with the Camacho and Rosario wins). Hyena, I swear I'm not an azzhole, and I'm not prejudice, I just don't think Chavez is the GOAT, that all.

Why is it that no one has addressed this? Chavez is the greatest boxer born in Mexico but not the best Mexican boxer of all time. Duran is half Mexican like myself (my Mom is Mexican) and no one can say that i am not Mexican just because i am half duran identifies himself as panamanian first and foremost though. he doesn't even give a **** about his dad because his dad never gave a **** about him. duran belongs to panama. "the country where i was born, i lived, and i will die." - roberto duran

lol Gotta be full blood Mexican to fight like Chavez. That's the rule. You get to be a Mexican, but you can't fight like Chavez. Unless you were thinking of winning your first 87 professional fights in a row, then you should be happy. But, on a more serious note, you'll see from the above video what prime Chavez brought to the table. Flashy v Reality. And Chavez was the reality. LOL ¿WHAT? umm ok? but you still did not address the statement that Duran is the best Mexican boxer of all time but from sillyness your responce i will not waste my time any longer. Too bad because i was up for a good logical debate, but that is NOT going to happen here. Good day my friend

there are many distinctively successful boxing styles. There is the safety first and rely on your coordination and speed (Whitaker, Mayweather, Pep), there's come forward at all costs and count on your own punches (Pryor, Pac), there's the keep a tight defense and work that body (McCallum, Chavez Sr), there's the work everything off the jab (Larry Holmes), there's use your size to keep you opponent at bay (Wlad, Lewis), There's use subtle defense and use superior counter punching (Duran, JMM), there's see if you can take more punishment than your opponent (Saad Muhamed, Holyfield, Frazier, Marciano), There's the few guys that do everything well (Ali, Leonard, Robinson, Ricardo Lopez- who I think was p4p as good of a fighter as I've seen, hows that for Mexican prejudice?). There are many more I'm glad for your great post, Bob. Now, enjoy this fight. I post it to wish everybody a very happy new year. And, I hope it clearly comes thru. This is JCC v Meldrick Taylor. A contrast of great styles if there ever was one. For the youngsters, Taylor was an undefeated, a prior US olympic medalist, and considered to be the best of his generation when this fight took place. In fact, he was considered unbeatable. He was. And, then he met prime Chavez. Pay close attention to the deleterious effects of the body damage beginning in round 6. This was fight of the year in 1990. Enjoy.

That is a disingenious argument. King Rome's opinion doesn't count because its flawed. Even a committedly biased poster such as yourself can see that. My position regarding the history section is already on record. They will note this thread. If somebody in there wants to run it, they can create one of their own. IMO this is the forum for this thread right now. edit: BoxingBob: please tell me all the distinctively successful boxing styles that you have observed? there are many distinctively successful boxing styles. There is the safety first and rely on your coordination and speed (Whitaker, Mayweather, Pep), there's come forward at all costs and count on your own punches (Pryor, Pac), there's the keep a tight defense and work that body (McCallum, Chavez Sr), there's the work everything off the jab (Larry Holmes), there's use your size to keep you opponent at bay (Wlad, Lewis), There's use subtle defense and use superior counter punching (Duran, JMM), there's see if you can take more punishment than your opponent (Saad Muhamed, Holyfield, Frazier, Marciano), There's the few guys that do everything well (Ali, Leonard, Robinson, Ricardo Lopez- who I think was p4p as good of a fighter as I've seen, hows that for Mexican prejudice?). There are many more

Why is it that no one has addressed this? Chavez is the greatest boxer born in Mexico but not the best Mexican boxer of all time. Duran is half Mexican like myself (my Mom is Mexican) and no one can say that i am not Mexican just because i am half lol Gotta be full blood Mexican to fight like Chavez. That's the rule. You get to be a Mexican, but you can't fight like Chavez. Unless you were thinking of winning your first 87 professional fights in a row, then you should be happy. But, on a more serious note, you'll see from the above video what prime Chavez brought to the table. Flashy v Reality. And Chavez was the reality. LOL

Chavez is not even the greatest Mexican Boxer of all time, that honor also goes to Duran, his father was Mexican Why is it that no one has addressed this? Chavez is the greatest boxer born in Mexico but not the best Mexican boxer of all time. Duran is half Mexican like myself (my Mom is Mexican) and no one can say that i am not Mexican just because i am half

Let's try this: undefeated Hector Camacho v prime Chavez a sample

He was the greatest Mexican boxer ever, but not the G.O.A.T. Is this an indictment of Mexican boxing?