It is INTELLECTUALLY & ANALYTICALLY DISHONEST to rank fighters with NO FIGHT FOOTAGE

120 hours is extensive don't you think? If you can't provide it, slavery never existed. its less than 30 minutes so you might be on to something. because comparing how great a fighter is based on fight footage as oppose to fighters with no fight footage is the same as actual slave footage for slavery to be determined as a historical fact for you. stick to hating floyd tom flores. ill be right there with you.

Ha! You're hanging onto that? You do ****ing know slavery is still alive and well today don't you? In some countries it never really ended. You made a horrible analogy, why don't you just accept it and move on? Show the extensive footage.

lol has to be 120 hrs ? is that a prerequisite for it to be a historical fact? 120 hours is extensive don't you think? If you can't provide it, slavery never existed.

being great is not just about physical attributes kids...there are many other factors to consider: level of competition, fighting schedules, weight classes, championship rounds,etc. Smh you guys are the same ones who say Henry Armstrong is not as great as Pacquiao because Pacquiao won "8 titles"

I haven't been watching boxing back in the 1920's or anything but I do believe that boxers today will most likely beat the boxers of yesterday. The boxers of today are just more evolved and are a product of the fighters of the past.

Julius Ceasar, Napoleon , Atilla the Hun, etc. couldn't have been great generals... there's no footage smh

Yup. The new breed of athletes started in the late 80s to 90s. Anything before that cannot be compared to new athletes. Major advances in science, nutrition, training, etc. Can you imagine Rocky Marciano or Joe Louis fighting Lennox Lewis? what a joke that would be. KO 1 Joe Louis could absolutely knock Lennox Lewis out. His ability, skill, and punching power would translate to any era.

If you really wanted to make a point about this you should have gone a bit further back in time(no footage of himself OR opponents, limited legit eye witness accounts, most newspaper clippings etc.) because there's too much info on Greb, there's even footage of some of the fighters he beat.

But B-hop explicitly said in an interview with Atlas that he doesn't train as an "old school" fighter. Atlas tried to pressure Hopkins in admitting he had learned old school techniques. Hopkins was having none of it. A lot of these guys who use the term old school are pretty dillusional. It's funny the amount of times I hear someone like Merchant say modern boxers don't have head movement, or modern boxers don't use the jab right as the boxer on screen does both of these things. Things like that are taught in any boxing school from day 1. They also use the term "throw back fight" during heated brawls as if those things don't happen often today. They happen plenty, and I'm pretty sick of hearing that term thrown in during every exciting fight. Boxing is full of morons who harp on about the old days of boxing even when the actions going on right in front of them. And other times he calls himself a modern-day throwback: http://******.craveonline.com/blog/172541-angry-hopkins-declares-qim-the-last-of-a-expletive-dying-breedq- Hopkins says what he wants when he wants. :) I can concur with that. Boxing old timers certainly have a way with hyperbole. The idea that the elite fighters of today couldn't hang with the elite fighters of yesterday is typically. If the only standard is "x couldn't beat Robinson or Pep" sure. I'll buy it. But I'd watch McLarnin-Pac or a Featherweight Morales vs. Baby Arizmendi, break out the popcorn, and expect a great fight either way.

I watched this fight again a while back; actually a good scrap. It's also not properly contextualized by what you're saying. This isn't both guys in their absolute prime. Both were getting near the end of long tenures. For a better idea of what a prime Canzo looked like, check out his stuff with Kid Chocolate: Even adjusting for things like frame rate (obviously faster than normal here), you can see evidence of perfectly so-called 'modern' technique. Chocolate was as slick a boxer as ever lived in any time. Great footwork, good speed etc. Canzoneri's ability to time counters evident. We live in a time where guys like Carl Froch and Vic Darchinyan can put together HOF-ish sort of resumes and these guys would be "B." C'mon man. And of course they were old school. Don't take my word for it. I've had the blessing of getting to ask people like Bernard Hopkins about who they watch and why and listen to the sheer admiration for, say, Ezzard Charles that's still out there. But B-hop explicitly said in an interview with Atlas that he doesn't train as an "old school" fighter. Atlas tried to pressure Hopkins in admitting he had learned old school techniques. Hopkins was having none of it. A lot of these guys who use the term old school are pretty dillusional. It's funny the amount of times I hear someone like Merchant say modern boxers don't have head movement, or modern boxers don't use the jab right as the boxer on screen does both of these things. Things like that are taught in any boxing school from day 1. They also use the term "throw back fight" during heated brawls as if those things don't happen often today. They happen plenty, and I'm pretty sick of hearing that term thrown in during every exciting fight. Boxing is full of morons who harp on about the old days of boxing even when the actions going on right in front of them.

Boxing is the only sport where people think not only athetic ability but technique didnt improve. All of this nonsense calling fighters "old school" anyone who uses a shoulder roll when really it is just a style of defense and is used all over the place even by morales. Lets pick all of todays best strategic fighters and call them old school even though it doesnt really make any sense because we have a convoluted idea of what fighters actually fought like 60 years ago. These guys above would get sparked out by todays B level fighters and its the truth. Look how fast and quickly MMA style evolved in like 15 years and people think boxers were strategically better 70 to 100 years ago. I watched this fight again a while back; actually a good scrap. It's also not properly contextualized by what you're saying. This isn't both guys in their absolute prime. Both were getting near the end of long tenures. For a better idea of what a prime Canzo looked like, check out his stuff with Kid Chocolate: Even adjusting for things like frame rate (obviously faster than normal here), you can see evidence of perfectly so-called 'modern' technique. Chocolate was as slick a boxer as ever lived in any time. Great footwork, good speed etc. Canzoneri's ability to time counters evident. We live in a time where guys like Carl Froch and Vic Darchinyan can put together HOF-ish sort of resumes and these guys would be "B." C'mon man. And of course they were old school. Don't take my word for it. I've had the blessing of getting to ask people like Bernard Hopkins about who they watch and why and listen to the sheer admiration for, say, Ezzard Charles that's still out there.

Wasn't the p4p ranking system based off of "who would win if they were the same size"

Show me 120 hours of it. Ha! You're hanging onto that? You do ****ing know slavery is still alive and well today don't you? In some countries it never really ended. You made a horrible analogy, why don't you just accept it and move on?

Scrap 40 years old, the man Greb was sparring, Philiadelphia Jack'O brien died in 1942 at the age of 64, that footage was taken somewhere around late 20's early 30's so he must have been nearing 50 or have probably been slightly older. The man that Greb was sparring in that footage died over a dozen years later from old age, and this is the same footage people love to espouse to somehow discredit Greb :lol1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHnidDtgFaw still not buying it. Wasn't it explained to you in the other thread that because cameras were filmed at a different frame rate, fighters used to exaggerate their movements rolled for training footage? do you think Greb actually punched like this in fights?

Did you watch that video of Greb sparring ROFLMAO, you think he could compete with current fighters? He would get wrecked dude cmon That's not remotely legitimate sparring footage. Not at all. Read back a little. Go watch some Mickey walker footage or some Gene Tunney or any of the other many notable fighters Greb beat at some point that there is fight film on. Greb was a bad dude.

Yup. The new breed of athletes started in the late 80s to 90s. Anything before that cannot be compared to new athletes. Major advances in science, nutrition, training, etc. Can you imagine Rocky Marciano or Joe Louis fighting Lennox Lewis? what a joke that would be. KO 1 Rock no. Louis, yes. Louis would have walked through someone as cautious as Lewis. For goodness sake, Lewis struggled in the rematch with a Holyfield who jabbed to his chest as his big shift. What was he going to do with the best offensive combination puncher in Heavyweight history? Louis did well against some of the larger men he faced and guys like Buddy Baer could fight. Sleep. That's what.

I agree, the old fighters would have got sparked out by todays top fighters. Just like Ruth wouldn't be as good in todays Era, Wilt Chamberlin wouldn't have dominated in basketball, and Pele wouldn't thrive like he did in his era. It's like that in every sport bro. Yup. The new breed of athletes started in the late 80s to 90s. Anything before that cannot be compared to new athletes. Major advances in science, nutrition, training, etc. Can you imagine Rocky Marciano or Joe Louis fighting Lennox Lewis? what a joke that would be. KO 1

You heard it here first, folks. It's a race thing. People only rank old school fighters highly because they're white. I mean, look at this usual list; 1. Robinson 2. Langford 3. Greb 4. Armstrong 5. Charles. As you can see, 100% white fighters. Did you watch that video of Greb sparring ROFLMAO, you think he could compete with current fighters? He would get wrecked dude cmon

1930s boxing. These are the types that are held in such ridiculous high esteem. GTFO. Boxing is the only sport where people think not only athetic ability but technique didnt improve. All of this nonsense calling fighters "old school" anyone who uses a shoulder roll when really it is just a style of defense and is used all over the place even by morales. Lets pick all of todays best strategic fighters and call them old school even though it doesnt really make any sense because we have a convoluted idea of what fighters actually fought like 60 years ago. These guys above would get sparked out by todays B level fighters and its the truth. Look how fast and quickly MMA style evolved in like 15 years and people think boxers were strategically better 70 to 100 years ago.