That's what happens when you try to be Mayweather!

What was Alvarado thinking using that stupid damn philly shell defense? If you have serious defensive liabilities that's the last thing you should be trying. If you have slow reflexes and are easy to hit, especially on the inside, then using that leaves you very open and vulnerable to big shots and guess what? Alvarado got caught trying to use boxing techniques that no trainer in his right mind would have him using! Now, not to slag on his trainer cause I'm sure I heard him saying to Alvarado to stop using it as it wasn't working, but he just kept doing it thinking that he was the one with the boxing skills. This is what happens kids when you try to fight like Mayweather and Toney without having any of the skill, speed, reflexes, general savvy and experience in that style. You get KTFO! Why did he think that would work? If you're a slow, power punching guy with major defensive liabilities that breaks guys down and uses strength and power to win fights rather than defensive counter punching, then coming into your biggest career fight using a style that shouldn't even be thought about is just incredible. I could not believe my eyes when he came out using it. I thought he was taking the piss for a minute then he just stayed in it while getting hit with right hand and left hook over and over on the inside. Really hate it when fighters do stupid **** like that and lose a fight because of it. Maybe he would have lost anyway, but from what had transpired in both of their offensive games, it looked to me that Alvarado could have certainly won it without such a moronic game plan. What could he have been thinking? "Hmmm, maybe with my complete lack of any defensive skill, using one hand to block shots will be better than two! Lets do it!"

Comments (20)

IronDanHamza

Never knew Floyd invented the philly shell He's not saying that. I think his point is, is that as Mayweather is so popular at this point to such a wide and casual audience, you see a lot of people using his defensive style or trying it. You see so many people using that style or similar styles this day and age compared to any other era by a wide wide wide margin. I see so many kids using that style too. The point he's trying to make it people should stop trying to be like Mayweather with their style because Mayweather's only as succesful as he is with that style because of his gifts first and foremost, along with obviously other things. Not that he created it. I'm sure Benny knows he didn't create that style.

13y ago

LarryX

Never knew Floyd invented the philly shell

13y ago

The_Gambler1981

Being something other than yourself is never a good idea in a high level prize fight. Some defensive tricks are very complex and need to be used mixed in with other stuff, because if you rely on them to much a guy of the proper level will figure out the holes and if you don't have another trick to counter that happening your opponent will just wear those holes out. That is the main problem when it comes to biting successful guys tricks, the successful guys know the what, when, where, why and how of their tricks which is why they are good for them but if a guys is just copying without that understanding it is just a cheap imitation. I don't like comparing Broner to Floyd for this very reason, he looks up to Floyd and likes to use his tricks but to me he doesn't have the understanding behind the tricks to truly get the most out of them, I think it will also eventually cost him unless he tightens up.

13y ago

El_Jesus

This is a good point. Whenever he's hurt or buzzed he instinctively goes into a conventional style high guard defense. It's a good way of knowing if a shot's hurt him. Obviously he also uses that when he isn't hurt but like you pointed out, it's not just the shoulder roll. Mayweather is one of the few complete fighters this sport has ever had which is why its going to be a blow when he leaves not because of popularity or any of that *****, its because the little things he does are incredible. as he has now left his prime, his real talent is showing and his fights have become more intense as his speed and legs are starting to leaving him. im not sold on someone like broner because he just doesnt have the same pedigree that mayweather had at his age, that and he tryin to hard to swag himself, not that this matters at all.

13y ago

IronDanHamza

also i have to add what alot of young fighters forget is that mayweather switches from conventional, hands down, shoulder roll etc. if you look at that 3rd or 4th round when judah laid into his ass, hes in a convenational two handed defense, just like when mosley stuck him, his defensive instincts as he has passed his prime are stilll intact, its how he hasnt been knocked the **** out at this point like jones was. its more than the shoulder roll. This is a good point. Whenever he's hurt or buzzed he instinctively goes into a conventional style high guard defense. It's a good way of knowing if a shot's hurt him. Obviously he also uses that when he isn't hurt but like you pointed out, it's not just the shoulder roll.

13y ago

El_Jesus

13y ago

El_Jesus

I actually see that in quite a lot of fighters nowadays, especially the younger ones that are coming up, that shoulder roll defense isn't for everybody, you need some really good natural defensive instincts to make it work. So yeah, I've seen more than once where younger fighters, whether they are emulating Mayeather or not, get tagged and hurt while trying to work that shoulder roll defense. I think what's happening now with the shoulder roll defense that Mayweather uses so well is similar to what happened when Roy Jones was at the top. I remember quite a lot of younger fighters back then trying to be like Roy Jones, throwing lead left hooks and right hands while keeping their hands low. A lot of them learned the hard way that they weren't Roy Jones. What's a little weird about Alvarado was that earlier in his career I remember him keeping both hands up on the inside and ripping away with his shots, whereas he's tried to roll the shoulder as a defensive move on the inside in his more recent fights. the roy jones impersonations in the gym were all the rage in the 90s and alot of people paid dearly when they found that they were nowhere near as quick nor had the fighting instincts to pull it off. the fact is, using the shoulder roll takes defensive instincts that are very difficult to teach and you need the instincts to anticipate, take a look at Vargas vs Castillejo to see how terrible it can look when used by someone who is a bad fit for it. (silencers im sure you remember that one, that was the fight that told me fernando was finished as a top tier fighter)

13y ago

ShoulderRoll

That defense actually helped Alvarado get hit less. If he hadn't used it he would be like Rios just eating up punch after punch like they were candy. What he should have done though was fight less on the inside and try to keep the fight at long range as much as possible. Like other posters have already mentioned.

13y ago

Alx

using the philly shell automatically = trying to be like floyd mayweather this......

13y ago

Frank_Ducketts

well yea i really feel it wasnt a 50/50 fight but u never wanna underestimate an opponent, so when he has power n heart u should recognize what the fighter might be capable of, Rios is gona get his confident back with this, n what i like that him n Garcia know each other so well, Rios after this will have his full confidence of Garcia of following the gameplan Acosta had the same plan fight in the outside but Acosta is a good fighter from the outside unlike Alvarado n Acosta still couldnt avoid the ko from Rios makes me wonder if the weight issue played a role on the Abril fight, but i still think Abril school Rios again, thats a fight that im scared to see but Abril does the deserve that W lolMaking weight played a huge roll in the Abril fight. The shoulder roll isn't just a roll of the shoulder. Alvarado didn't protect the body and Rios hurt Alvarado to the body which is what brought his hands down. Rios took a lot of Alvarados energy the round before the stoppage with bodyshots.

13y ago

Silencers

13y ago

TX_BOXNG

I wasn't 50-50. I knew Rios would win, and he won exactly how you said he did. Good post. well yea i really feel it wasnt a 50/50 fight but u never wanna underestimate an opponent, so when he has power n heart u should recognize what the fighter might be capable of, Rios is gona get his confident back with this, n what i like that him n Garcia know each other so well, Rios after this will have his full confidence of Garcia of following the gameplan Acosta had the same plan fight in the outside but Acosta is a good fighter from the outside unlike Alvarado n Acosta still couldnt avoid the ko from Rios makes me wonder if the weight issue played a role on the Abril fight, but i still think Abril school Rios again, thats a fight that im scared to see but Abril does the deserve that W lol

13y ago

NearHypnos

It was working. He made a mistake in the way he turned and it cost him. It happens

13y ago

Frank_Ducketts

Before the fight I knew it was 50/50, but I knew Rios inside game was too much for Alvarado, since the first round when I saw Rios landing those short punches to the face I felt Rios would stop him late, those shorter punches are harder that's why his face was busted up so quick n his jaw was weaken by the 7th rd that's when Rios tries to land his harder shots like against Acosta, then tose longer punches from the outside I really didn't see Rios get hurt bad, I feel the Acosta fight was much tougher for him, I think rematch will go the same way but Alvarado is a big puncher n has a big heart so u can't really ever count him, I feel Rios was barely warming up, watch the Acosta fight how he takes of those middle rounds, Robert Garcia n Rios knew it I don't rememer what round was it Rios was smiling in the corner n Garcia told him don't get confident though I wasn't 50-50. I knew Rios would win, and he won exactly how you said he did. Good post.

13y ago

TX_BOXNG

13y ago

BennyST

i get where you are going with your argument. The only thing is that it does matter when you say that there is no difference between styles. Paulie Malinaggi uses a shoulder roll, but is nothing like Mayweather. Shyt Toney's style is nothing like Mayweather's. He tried to emulate Abril. Yeah, who he tried to emulate isn't important. That's not really the point. It's more about using techniques that a fighter doesn't have the right tools for and hasn't used before. All of those guys you mentioned use certain techniques in their own style and stick to using them. Often the same techniques. All common boxing techniques. Obviously they are going to use them in different ways. You aren't going to see Malignaggi come in trying to bomb a power puncher out though, and this is the point. A guy that's really easy to hit and doesn't use a defensive counter punching style should not try to do so in a fight against a guy with a great inside game and excellent power. It's a recipe for disaster. He's an offensive power puncher that breaks guys down. He should have stuck to that while mixing in his basic boxing skills. His jab was working well and trying to find space was good. He didn't need to try using what had worked for Abril, because it clearly wasn't going to work for him. We still got a good fight, but it would have been great regardless I think.

13y ago

_original_

That's largely the point. Don't get me wrong, he wasn't trying to do a Broner and be like Mayweather, I'm just using mayweathers name as an example, but he was using a defensive technique that he shouldn't have been. Whether it was Abril or Mayweather or whoever else doesn't matter, it shouldn't have been tried by Alvarado because he got hit very easily inside when he was using it. He would have been much better served with both hands up and pushing off Rios to get space. Defututus: he's the obvious name to recall being the most popular exponent of it today and the most recognisable name. :twak: Very true. I couldn't believe how Alvarado could just not make adjustments as he kept getting tagged with some of the same bombs. And instead of fighting from a distance where he was looking good, he kept getting inside with Rios which I thought was foolish. It was actually looking like Alvarado was taking control of the fight before Rios just started throwing and more importantly landing some huge shots. I personally feel that Alvarado fought a dumb fight and could have won had he not tried to engage in such a war. But hey, doesn't matter I guess, we got a great fight out of it.

13y ago

kingjosh

I agree the fight was amazing. Disagree with your assessment that Mayweather's fight are 90% boring. He executes a great plan and his fights are interesting because he is master at the hit and do not get hit style.

13y ago

BennyST

That was the best fight I've seen in a long time. If Alvarado was successful at the Philly shell, the fight would have been a boring dud. Boxing is what we witnessed last night. Mayweather is an excellent defensive fighter, but 90% of his career has been boring, and he has only 1 or 2 fights I would watch replays of. Indeed! I'm glad he wasn't successful and didn't fight like Abril, Mayweather whoever. It was an amazing fight whatever happened and however they fought though. Pity it didn't last a bit longer, but I don't see how it could have anyway with Alvarado throwing nearly 150 punches in round 5 and well over 100 in he others. That's just insane. He was either going to take Rios out or wear himself out.

13y ago

kingjosh

13y ago