by EZ E -
After watching the short HBO preview of Cotto vs Margarito II "FACE OFF With Max Kellerman" I find it somewhat easy to relate with Miguel Cotto's comments, calling Tony Margarito's 'never say die/quit' stand against Manny Pacquiao pure STUPIDITY. I’ve been around the game since childhood, my father and uncle are ex-fighters that trained and managed fighters throughout my youth and teens. I’ve seen alot of brave fighters, champs, contenders and little regarded club fighters which I admired and that aren’t doing too good these days, suffering of poor health, brain damage, dementia, liver and kidney other serious health issues and problems related to their ring days. Unfortunately there are many more on the way.
Yes, many, many more. I see them at fight cards I attend. Some I trained along side of and sparred with for years now can barely recognize me. For others the ‘symptoms’ are beginning to show. A year from now a few won’t even remember me anymore as well. My beloved uncle ‘forgot’ who I was and so did my cousin, a 2 time New York Golden Gloves champ who later fought close to 40 pro fights. It’s the sad part of the game that many fans overlook.. Practically NONE of the fans that these brave men once entertained will lift a finger to help them get into their seat nor buy them a drink. Some even make fun of these warriors. There’s this one ex world title challenger that I once fought when we were amateurs that I now visit from time to time. He’s not doing too well either. He didn’t make much in his day and his managers practically made more than he did. He lives alone in a clean but old house, a house he himself bought and later inherited from his mom. He purchased the house from his uncle, her brother, over 30 years ago. On a few un-announced visits I found him hitting an worn and decaying heavy bag he had hanging from a tree in his back yard. He seemed to come to life as he let loose combos and ‘danced’ around. Last year I bought him a new one with my income tax return check. Lately the ‘symptoms’ have been accelerating. He shuffles as he walks, his speech slurred. I can notice how his mind seems to wander off and how he closes his eyes to concentrate.
In the HBO segment Cotto stated that he wasn't willing "to die in the ring" for the fans or personal reputation. For this folks on other sites have already began criticizing Cotto and comparing his words and courage to those of Victor Ortiz after the Marcos Maidana fight. Well, first of all, Victor Ortiz didn’t take any punishment compared to Cotto. Did Cotto ‘cowardly’ take a knee in his punishing brawl with Margarito in July of 2008?? hmmmm… Well, what was he to do? He knew he was beaten up pretty bad already, could barely breathe from his busted nose, his ear dripping blood, weakened by the PUNISHMENT he had ALREADY ABSORBED!! He knew that he NO LONGER had the strength to keep the oncoming Margarito off him. Was he supposed please the fans and continue to be battered until TOTAL HELPLESSNESS or until he was knocked into COMPLETE HEALTH THREATENING UNCONSCIOUSNESS?? Is THAT what he’s paid for?? Didn’t he prove enough? Was he supposed to risk it ALL? For WHO?? The fans??? hmmmm.. Do you know how many “fans” care about my friend, my cousin or my long deceased uncle?? Do you what to know how many visitors my friend or the legendary Wilfredo Benitez get?? I’ll tell you, practically NONE!! No love offerings, handouts, card shows, no visits... NOTHING and NOBODY!
Tony Margarito is one tough S.O.B., no doubt about it. He has a different outlook on his profession. To him it’s "win or DIE trying" at all cost. That’s him. Fortunately Manny Pacquiao was merciful enough to hold back from the tenth round on or Tony might not be fighting on December 3rd nor ANY OTHER DAY!! We all UNDENIABLY saw how Pac looked to the ref on a couple of occasions, hoping he’d intervene. On the other hand Cotto expresses that’s fighting is his job, putting in a good days work and go home to his family. Twenty five or thirty years from now he might be glad he took his knee while enjoying his health, wealth and family. Tony?? Hopefully he will also do the same and not end up with the “symptom” that now haunt my ex-adversary friend, my ‘do or die’ cousin or Benitez or Bobby Chacon, Denny Moyer, Greg McClellan….. and many, many more of the fighters that entertained and thrilled us and we’ve somehow FORGOTTEN about.
Before I end this comment allow me to say that a few years ago I once asked my cousin what would he prefer, his ‘do or die’ fame or his health? He answered,”I would still be a fighter BUT I would’ve taken better care of my marbles. What good are thirty year old cheers and scrapbooks if you aint got the marbles to remember them??” These days my cousin doesn’t remember ever saying those words nor much of anything else, sometimes he doesn’t even remember me. Peace to all!!
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Cotto is a warrior, but the fact is there are different levels of warrior. He isn't willing to die in the ring which means there is some "give" in him. Margarito on the other hand IS willing to die and you can't break him. That being said, it isn't like Cotto is a p*ssy like Zab Judah who got "low blowed" and quit or I think it was Kendall Holt who had a slight cut over his eyebrow, no bleeding and quit after 4 rounds.
Cotto not a warrior... watch him against Judah, Clottey and Torres and tell that. Really, they both have good points like Marg pointed out in Taylor vs Chavez a KO can come at any time. Cotto is also right when he felt there was nothing he could do against Marg to win that fight, and can you blame him? Cotto landed the best shots I've ever seen him land (especially that last left at the end of round 2) and Marg just smiles at him while getting pummeled. No need to take another 3+ minutes if you don't feel you can win. That beings said I prefer my fighters with Marg's train of thought, the corner should be there to protect the fighter IMO.Bravo sir great post
Excellent post and I agree 100%. I really like and respect Cotto. He's twice the boxer Marg is no doubt but sometimes that's not enough to win. Sometimes heart, will, chin and effort wins out over skill as we have seen Marg do on many occasions.
Yea definitely, I agree with the post too.
I'm just seeing some people hear Cotto's comments and group him in with like Ortiz, Holt, and Judah like beater mentioned, and to me that's grossly unfair.
Cotto may not have in him what Margarito does, but the guy has fought hurt and cut up so many times and fought his a$$ off. He's not Margarito but the guy has a lot of heart and shouldn't be labled as a quitter or mentally weak.
There aren't all that many Margarito's around.
Cotto is a warrior, but the fact is there are different levels of warrior. He isn't willing to die in the ring which means there is some "give" in him. Margarito on the other hand IS willing to die and you can't break him. That being said, it isn't like Cotto is a p*ssy like Zab Judah who got "low blowed" and quit or I think it was Kendall Holt who had a slight cut over his eyebrow, no bleeding and quit after 4 rounds.
Cotto not a warrior... watch him against Judah, Clottey and Torres and tell that. Really, they both have good points like Marg pointed out in Taylor vs Chavez a KO can come at any time. Cotto is also right when he felt there was nothing he could do against Marg to win that fight, and can you blame him? Cotto landed the best shots I've ever seen him land (especially that last left at the end of round 2) and Marg just smiles at him while getting pummeled. No need to take another 3+ minutes if you don't feel you can win. That beings said I prefer my fighters with Marg's train of thought, the corner should be there to protect the fighter IMO.
Excellent post and I agree 100%. I really like and respect Cotto. He's twice the boxer Marg is no doubt but sometimes that's not enough to win. Sometimes heart, will, chin and effort wins out over skill as we have seen Marg do on many occasions.
Cotto is a warrior, but the fact is there are different levels of warrior. He isn't willing to die in the ring which means there is some "give" in him. Margarito on the other hand IS willing to die and you can't break him. That being said, it isn't like Cotto is a p*ssy like Zab Judah who got "low blowed" and quit or I think it was Kendall Holt who had a slight cut over his eyebrow, no bleeding and quit after 4 rounds.
Cotto not a warrior... watch him against Judah, Clottey and Torres and tell that. Really, they both have good points like Marg pointed out in Taylor vs Chavez a KO can come at any time. Cotto is also right when he felt there was nothing he could do against Marg to win that fight, and can you blame him? Cotto landed the best shots I've ever seen him land (especially that last left at the end of round 2) and Marg just smiles at him while getting pummeled. No need to take another 3+ minutes if you don't feel you can win. That beings said I prefer my fighters with Marg's train of thought, the corner should be there to protect the fighter IMO.
Agreed. I think Cotto is the type who will quit only when he feels theres no chance versus Margarito whose all in is given no matter the circumstances
Cotto is a quitter in a boxing sense. Of course cotto the smarter of the two more realistic, He has to think about his family first etc etc, But this is boxing the hurt game how far are you willing to go and if push come to shove and Margarito puts him in the same situation he was before he will quit and cotto would have lost fans, respect of HIS OWN people. When it some dramatic rivalry like MX vs PR and their some bad blood involved people dont want to see their person take a knee and quit just cause it got dangerous. You think after their first fight all the Cotto fans was saying good he took a kneee and quit cause he could have died he has to think of his family NO! they were mad and ass hurt and he lost respect from his fans.
So in boxing terms Cotto a dumbass, He could have easily said "And I am willing to die to" but he knows that everyone knows that's not true cause the whole world saw him quit when **** got rough.
just my 2 cents
He didn't take a knee against Pacquiao but he literally RAN from the smaller Pacquiao in the last rounds.
Last rounds... It was the entire second half of the fight. However, I think not having a trainer and probably not over the Margarito fiasco had a lot to do with that. He did the same thing against Clottey, its like once he feels plan A stops working he doesn't tries to run out the clock. He just needs better strategy IMO, this was never an issue with Evangelista in his corner, aside from the Marg fight but we can see why he ran in that one.
Cotto is a warrior, but the fact is there are different levels of warrior. He isn't willing to die in the ring which means there is some "give" in him. Margarito on the other hand IS willing to die and you can't break him. That being said, it isn't like Cotto is a p*ssy like Zab Judah who got "low blowed" and quit or I think it was Kendall Holt who had a slight cut over his eyebrow, no bleeding and quit after 4 rounds.
Cotto not a warrior... watch him against Judah, Clottey and Torres and tell that. Really, they both have good points like Marg pointed out in Taylor vs Chavez a KO can come at any time. Cotto is also right when he felt there was nothing he could do against Marg to win that fight, and can you blame him? Cotto landed the best shots I've ever seen him land (especially that last left at the end of round 2) and Marg just smiles at him while getting pummeled. No need to take another 3+ minutes if you don't feel you can win. That beings said I prefer my fighters with Marg's train of thought, the corner should be there to protect the fighter IMO.
Cotto was not worried with his health when he took that knee to marg. he took it cuz he couldn't take the punishment... Cotto took more punishment to pacman and he didn't take a knee there.
He didn't take a knee against Pacquiao but he literally RAN from the smaller Pacquiao in the last rounds.
This is the most ridiculous comparison I have yet to read in this subject. So you equated the toughness of a boxer with the foolishness of wanting to join a gang?
Good lord you are a simple minded kid. Kids join gangs for many different reasons, not just wanting to be "down"...lol
Second, it's a cultural thing and a 3rd world thing that you don't get. Marg, Chavez, Gatti, Ward, Marquez have all said they are willing to die in the ring not because they are wanting to be tough, it's because they give everything they are in that ring and are a product of their tough environments.
When you come from a 3rd world country and struggle and are hungry the way a lot of these fighters are, it's do or die in that ring. Chavez talked about how he and Jose Luis Ramirez were literally fighting for money enough to feed their families for that month.
That's why he fought every month, not because he was trying to pad his record but he was trying to eat....
Agree with this post.
Cotto was not worried with his health when he took that knee to marg. he took it cuz he couldn't take the punishment... Cotto took more punishment to pacman and he didn't take a knee there.
Cotto admitted that he ran out of gas against Margo and that he took too much punishment from Pac cause he is the best fighter that he has ever faced
But I argue that "dying in the ring" for approval is in MANY ways WEAKER. It's the same type of foolishness that causes grown men to act like 18 yr olds and join gangs etc. to PROVE how "down" they are... It takes a certain maturity and COURAGE to NOT leave your family fatherless for the sake of proving ANYTHING out of WEAKNESS. Cotto is a confident person and a TRUE individual. Not all men need to be a part of a crowd or prove to the crowd that they are "down" with the crowd. Especially when that crowd is full of chubby ass, *****es who think they know what it feels like to be in the ring.
This is the most ridiculous comparison I have yet to read in this subject. So you equated the toughness of a boxer with the foolishness of wanting to join a gang?
Good lord you are a simple minded kid. Kids join gangs for many different reasons, not just wanting to be "down"...lol
Second, it's a cultural thing and a 3rd world thing that you don't get. Marg, Chavez, Gatti, Ward, Marquez have all said they are willing to die in the ring not because they are wanting to be tough, it's because they give everything they are in that ring and are a product of their tough environments.
When you come from a 3rd world country and struggle and are hungry the way a lot of these fighters are, it's do or die in that ring. Chavez talked about how he and Jose Luis Ramirez were literally fighting for money enough to feed their families for that month.
That's why he fought every month, not because he was trying to pad his record but he was trying to eat....
You got me fukked up man, not what I'm saying at all. Of course Cotto is a warrior in the sense that he steps into the ring and risks his life/health every time. I'm actually a huge Cotto fan and you're taking my comments wrong most likely because you're a Cotto nutthugger. What I mean by not having the "fighter's spirit" is that he's not a win-at-all-costs type of fighter like Gatti, Corrales or Margarito who will battle till the end. Doesn't just have to mean a brawler, guys like Mayweather and Marquez are overly competitive and refuse to lose. I don't see anything like that in Cotto, he doesn't have the mental make up of those fighters and would probably quit again. Just listen to the face-off, the guy isn't willing to go all out for the fans or his fighting pride.
Cotto doesn't have mental make up of a tough fighter? I saw him in the Garden against Clottey with a huge gash that he could had quit when he was ahead.
And HE DID say at the post fight interview that he didn't stop cause he owed the fans that were present a good fight.
Cotto doesn't have the fighter's spirit, he's not a warrior, that's all I can say about him. I pay to watch Cotto the fighter go out and perform, not Cotto the family man. Good for him, shi.t I'd do the same thing, but I watch him go fight not be Mr. Family Guy.
My 2 cents.
fukk outta here.... a man who took on every single one who they put in front of him, no excuses. Taken two brutal beatings and still there now training to take on the man who took his -0 not a warrior?
i'll say this, at least he's honest about it and he doesn't feel he needs to lie to anyone. He could have easily come out with something made up to sound good. Now, it did come out bad because the way he said it, it sounded as if he didn't care for the fans but I know that's not the case so it just came out bad. I gotta respect his stand and he sounds smart in saying it. I would have been pumped if he had said something in the lines of: "i'm willing to die in this fight" but it would have been BS and he doesn't feel the necessity for it.
Much like when other fighters talk about a war in the ring and then fight-night comes and its a bore-fest. At least I know that Cotto will make it a fight and he will be in there and it WILL be entertaining no matter what.
Cotto was not worried with his health when he took that knee to marg. he took it cuz he couldn't take the punishment... Cotto took more punishment to pacman and he didn't take a knee there.
You got me fukked up man, not what I'm saying at all. Of course Cotto is a warrior in the sense that he steps into the ring and risks his life/health every time. I'm actually a huge Cotto fan and you're taking my comments wrong most likely because you're a Cotto nutthugger. What I mean by not having the "fighter's spirit" is that he's not a win-at-all-costs type of fighter like Gatti, Corrales or Margarito who will battle till the end. Doesn't just have to mean a brawler, guys like Mayweather and Marquez are overly competitive and refuse to lose. I don't see anything like that in Cotto, he doesn't have the mental make up of those fighters and would probably quit again. Just listen to the face-off, the guy isn't willing to go all out for the fans or his fighting pride.
If you knew me you'd know that I'm far from a nut hugger.. Cotto is my favorite fighter yes but far from nut hugging anyone. I puttee sport first before any boxer.. And I think there is a difference in what Cotto is saying.. Cotto gives his all in every fight.. True warrior.. But if you're beaten down like he was against Margs and you know YOU CANT TAKE ANYMORE PUNISHMENT then there's nothing wrong with stopping the fight.. A lot of people hated when Ortiz quit (he's Mexican) but I thought it was good on him.. Live to fight another day.. Look at Margs now.. Can't even get a damn license to fight cause of his eye.. If the fight was stopped in the 10th where it should have then this wouldn't be a problem.. **** he's lucky PAC pumped the breaks cause if he continued what he was doin I don't think Margs would be able to talk straight.. Cotto always goes all out for his fans just like Margs does. The difference is that one wants to preserve his health and the other doesn't care about his health.. I used to be a Margs fan until the hand wraps **** and even though he seems like a scumbag he showed me he can still bang especially in the PAC fight.. I just don't think he should take stupid punishment and put your health at risk.. It's already at risk enough in this sport...