Are Mayweather and Pacquiao paper champions at 154 lbs?

Both are paper champions at that weight, yes. Mayweather's title at 154 is obviously alot more legit than Pac's, though.

When has there ever been a legit champ at 154??? Even Martinez wasn't a legit champ at 154. FWIW most guys either won titles via vacancy, or waited until a guy who was very beatable, won the title and then fought for it. Pacquiao beating Margarito for a vacant title >>> Martinez drawing against Cintron and getting fedex a vacant title When are people going to get their heads around how screwed over Martinez was in that fight? He didn't just get a draw, he got royally screwed worse than Lara did against Williams. For the hundredth time: Martinez knocked Cintron out. IF someone can explain how that equals a draw, apart from brutal corruption, then I might agree that Pac beating on a shot hack, at a catchweight, for a vacant title, in a division neither had been fighting at, had only one crappy win against an unranked fighter or no wins at all in the division and shouldn't have even been ranked in the top ten, let alone fighting for a title was better...but Martinez won that fight twice. Once by knock out and then once by easy decision and yet still somehow only managed a draw. Can anyone on earth imagine if Pac knocked out against Marquez in his next fight; Marquez got dropped for the full ten, but then they decided to let him fight on after being allowed to recover. Then, rather Marquez winning most rounds, it was Pac that won most of them with two knock downs.....but the he only got a draw? A draw? In a fight he won by KO and then wide decision due to winning the majority of rounds with two knock downs? There would be widespread rioting, national chaos and anarchy in the phillipines, investigations into corruption......etc etc. But, because it happened to some largely unknown dude from Argentina, who really gives a toss.

How the hell is fighting at a catchweight for a belt almost the same thing? It's world's apart. Jesus! This is what i posted IT's the same FVVKING Thing. the only advantage FLoyd has is it was fought at full 154 I guess it matters these days. If you hate catchweights then fine. i just like to inform you that its been happening since the early part of the previous century. Its part of boxing. it happens when size of the fighters arent optimum for a particular division. i.e Canzoneri-Berg, Chavez-Whitaker, Hopkins-DLH etc HTH

I can see people giving a lot of weight to floyd's 154 title per se. But why **** on Pac's title? its almost the same thing. No real eliminator was made. it was technically awarded outright to a recently kayoed Mayorga. Rankings are subjective so it is stupid to rank Margarito and Pac for a title but not Mayorga and Picirillo? so just because it is not called a 'vacant' title anymore DLH's win over Mayorga legitimitize that title? :poke: IT's the same FVVKING Thing. the only advantage FLoyd has is it was fought at full 154 :D I guess it matters these days.

Because Margarito didn't win or own the 154 pound title! Marg never had the title it was awarded to the winner of that fight. Most importantly, the fight wasn't technically a 154 pound fight. I see your arguments for Floyd's 154 pound not being the most legitimate belt, because he didn't beat a lineal champion. Thats fair. But the objective of this thread (at this point, it seems) is to see which of the two was less legitimate. It's Manny's. Well I can agree with that being that 2 guys have fought before and it seems the championship wasnt really vacant. Aesthetically at least. Imagine Mayorga having a title shot right after being kayoed. at least Margarito have won at 154 prior to the vacant title shot. denominator of the titles is the WBC sanctioning fee nothing more. I would bet both Picirillo and Mayorga would be handled by Margarito with ease if we are to talk of fighters competitiveness involved in this argument.

Mosley was jumping back and forth between WW and JMW and owned a win over DLH at 154. DLH only had 1 fight at JWM after coming down from MW himself and had been inactive for a year. Thats not the criteria for a fighter who is unquestionably the best. I'll concede that Oscar wasn't "unquestionably" the best, but you could make a strong argument for (and if not the best, certainly 2nd best). At the time it was the best fight at 154 that could of been made. While the Oscar negotiations were taking place and when the deal closed, Mosley was already scheduled to fight Collazo. Also most observers felt Oscar won that second fight with Mosley. But anyway, add to that the popular demand for the fight, it was after all the biggest fight in boxing history. I don't know how anyone could hate on Mayweather vs De La Hoya for a legitimate 154lb title.

I dont know who it would be honestly. Oscar at that point is a very good win on a resume, but as far as being "the" champ Im not sure anyone deserved the title at that point. ill say this, mosely's resume at 154 was proly better than oscars. at the time the fight happened, he was proly campaigning at 147 tho. but 154 was a weak division back then, just like today. so like some others say, it wasnt a wow win. and yea, no1 was a standout.

mosely was sqarely at 147 after he lost to winky. he wasnt jumping anymore. he knew he didnt belong there. EDIT: Im wrong, he did jump for a vargas fight, if im not miskaten. so yea i guess moesly was probably the best jmw in that era. I dont know who it would be honestly. Oscar at that point is a very good win on a resume, but as far as being "the" champ Im not sure anyone deserved the title at that point.

Mosley was jumping back and forth between WW and JMW and owned a win over DLH at 154. DLH only had 1 fight at JWM after coming down from MW himself and had been inactive for a year. Thats not the criteria for a fighter who is unquestionably the best. mosely was sqarely at 147 after he lost to winky. he wasnt jumping anymore. he knew he didnt belong there. EDIT: Im wrong, he did jump for a vargas fight, if im not miskaten. so yea i guess moesly was probably the best jmw in that era.

Winky was at 160. So if not Oscar probably Ouma or Roman Karmazin lol. :poke: Mosley was jumping back and forth between WW and JMW and owned a win over DLH at 154. DLH only had 1 fight at JWM after coming down from MW himself and had been inactive for a year. Thats not the criteria for a fighter who is unquestionably the best.

Winky was at 160. So if not Oscar probably Ouma or Roman Karmazin lol. :poke: jmw was and has always bee a **** division. when winky left any jmw champ was as good as the other. oscar may not have been lineal but the other options werent that specal either.

Who was the top 154 pounder at the time, then? I think Winky was at MW at that point. Winky was at 160. So if not Oscar probably Ouma or Roman Karmazin lol. :poke:

Who was the top 154 pounder at the time, then? I think Winky was at MW at that point. Im not sure honestly and a case can be made for DLH, but he had been inactive for an entire year and wasnt on a hot streak in any way. Id say its hard to call him undisputed.

and he proved that by being inactive for a year after beating a faded Mayorga? Who was the top 154 pounder at the time, then? I think Winky was at MW at that point.

My arguments were very clear and these people posted pictures of cartoon characters? and that says what? That they know whay they're talking about? more like the opposite. What's hard to understand? Mayorga got kayoed before being declared the champion from vacancy which in turn ended up with Dela Hoya. How can you say that that is any different from a 'vacant' title from a 154 Antonio Margarito? Piccirillo was **** Mayorga was **** how can that title mean more? :sad2: Because Margarito didn't win or own the 154 pound title! Marg never had the title it was awarded to the winner of that fight. Most importantly, the fight wasn't technically a 154 pound fight. I see your arguments for Floyd's 154 pound not being the most legitimate belt, because he didn't beat a lineal champion. Thats fair. But the objective of this thread (at this point, it seems) is to see which of the two was less legitimate. It's Manny's.

Oscar was without question the #1 JMW when Floyd fought him (actually at 154 mind you). Floyd's win over Oscar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manny's win over Margarito. and he proved that by being inactive for a year after beating a faded Mayorga?

Im talking about Mayorga's vacant title he won after previously being kayoed by Trinidad. Pac's 154 = Floyd's 154 If Floyd beat the Dela Hoya who beat Javier Castillejo then I'd say Floyd's title has more weight. both titles didnt go the normal process of elimination between two 'real' TOP 2 CONTENDERS. But at least the guy Floyd beat had to BEAT SOMEBODY to get the title. Sure, its no lineal championship, but hell Mayorga beat Picc then Oscar beat Mayorga. They gave the title to a guy who fought a nobody after getting kicked out of the sport and a guy who had never fought at that weight and refused to fight at that weight. Both were unranked at JW! Ridiculous! It was a scam.

Oscar was without question the #1 JMW when Floyd fought him (actually at 154 mind you). Floyd's win over Oscar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manny's win over Margarito.

They both fought in that division for 1 purpose & have no intentions of going back to that weight. Pacquaio fought in that weight for a record & Floyd fought Oscar in that division, knowing if he win's he'll get more exposure & be the star & face of boxing. very good points...

Discuss.............. Floyd beat Oscar exactly at 154 and he was bigger than Pacquiao. He needs to fight Sergio ASAP before he goes for another retirement or vacation once again.