Pac has the best prime fighter on his resume, but Floyd has more good fighters.

Wathever, it was a close fight. Yes and Cotto won a UD.

how did he "SD" an old mosley? Wathever, it was a close fight.

Somewhat agree with this, but one of Pacquiao's KO losses happened when he was making a 2nd defense of his lineal championship, how is that not close to his prime? There's a humungous difference between losing a Majority Decision in your 1st professional fight and being KO'd by a C-level journeyman while defending your world title. All are relevant. But leeway can be given on Torrecampo. Singsurat & Morales are bad losses. Morales was clearly on the slide when he beat Pacquiao, evident in the fact that he didn't win another fight for the next 5 years after his victory over Pac. No. I'm putting just the right amount of emphasis on it, if you notice what i was responding to. My main point is, you can't gloss over that very relevant part of his career and pretend like it doesn't exist. When comparing the career's of ATG's everything has to be taken into consideration. Mayweather started boxing at 5 years old in a boxing family, Pacquiao started boxing at 15 years old in the third world, that's why Manny wasn't in his prime at 20 years old in my opinion altough he already was a world champion. That is also why Manny is what I call a true talent, Mayweather has been built by his father and uncle, Manny by the Manila street life.

I don't think Cotto is damaged goods, he always looked like a fragile fighter, Torres and Corley hurt him bad, he SD an old Mosley,Cotto's one of my fav, but no surprise in Cotto losing to Pacquiao or struggling with Clottey, Josh finally did better than Mosley against the Pinoy icon. how did he "SD" an old mosley?

did you see the clottey fight and the jennings fight???he clearly wasnt the beast he was before margo...good win no doubt,but even roach said he was damaged goods I don't think Cotto is damaged goods, he always looked like a fragile fighter, Torres and Corley hurt him bad, he SD an old Mosley,Cotto's one of my fav, but no surprise in Cotto losing to Pacquiao or struggling with Clottey, Josh finally did better than Mosley against the Pinoy icon.

KLTP;10932540']Manny's resume at CWs > Floyd's resume at CWs (not debatable) Manny's head size > Floyd's head size (not debatable)

Floyd retirements and vacations > Pac 3 losses Floyd best wins against prime opponents Floyd accomplishment Pacquiao 4 lineal titles and 8 division titles are the clear testament of Pacquiao overall greatness compared to him.

you have 4 fights listed for floyd... you should also have 4 for pac.. so, why not put cotto or hatton.. or ledwaba? Put Cotto on there then. That is fine. maybe I haven't given Cotto enough credit. Maybe I underestimated Clottey's ability when he fought Cotto.

He maybe could have fought Berto but he already fought SSM, Marg I believe was suspended at the time and they were trying to get together Pac/Floyd after Pac beat Cotto so I can't really see any big fights for Miguel and Arum seemed like he wanted to secretly cash Cotto out against Foreman but it failed. I forget that the welterweight picture was pretty settled at the time. Berto really was the only guy that could have made him any serious money or contributed to his legacy.

No, I just didn't include him because he isn't a top 3-4 win for Pac IMO. The version of Cotto Pac fought doesn't seem as strong as the wins I mentioned. Maybe I'm wrong? Do you think the Cotto win is more significant than those three? you have 4 fights listed for floyd... you should also have 4 for pac.. so, why not put cotto or hatton.. or ledwaba?

James DeGale

No. Not at all. I'm just asking for context. I'm saying let's not forget his KO losses to bums, because they're just as much a part career as all his great acheivements. If you're going to compare his career to the careers of other greats, then let's compare his ENTIRE] career, not just pick & choose which parts you want to shine a spotlight on, and ignore other parts because it fits your agenda. Nope. It's not the same as being KO'd early in your career in your physical prime. Most of the ATG's were consistently dominant throughout their careers and didn't have bad losses until they got old and their body started to breakdown, and their speed, agility, reflexes, power etc. had naturally faded. So there's a difference. And Ortiz is lightyears ahead of Torrecampo & Sinsurat. A Floyd lost to Ortiz still wouldn't be as bad as the losses Pac has on his resume. Disagree with this. Losses early in your career should not be weighed more (or the same) than losses when you're closer to your prime. Are you gonna put a black cloud over Bernard Hopkins' career because he lost his very first professional fight? No, you shouldn't, and if anything when referring to his legacy, his loss to Roy Jones Jr. would be more appropriate because it happened closer to his prime. Similarly, Pac's loss to Morales is much more relevant than his KO losses to Torrecampo/Singsurat. You're right in that you can't ignore losses completely when analyzing one's resume. I'm not saying Pac's KO losses don't matter, but you're putting way too much emphasis on them when it's clear the losses were not even close to his prime, where he didn't have a decent trainer/facilities, and happened when he was 18 years old.

There are some ideas I have, I mean what could he do at WW? He can't be the best after being soundly beaten by Pac. I think Arum was pretty high on Yuri Foreman after how good he looked against Santos and was hoping that he could beat Cotto and could bring out some Jewish fanbase but it turned out he wasn't so now Miguel has a belt at 154 and just probably has to skip breakfast to make weight. He has never come in higher than 159 on FN as far as I know but I could be incorrect. The Yuri argument sounds good. Now that I look back, the promotion was focused on Yuri as much as Cotto, maybe even more. At the same time, I still think a lot could have been done at welterweight. The reason more wasn't done probably has more to do with the level of competition at WW vs JMW--that sold Arum. I think you are probably right about Cotto. He is only 5'7 after all, which is the same height as Mayweather and kind of small for a JMW.

I believe he is yes, he looked small next to a relatively small SWW in Yuri Foreman and also looked small next to Mayorga. As far as I am concerned he is a WW fighting at 154. But the more you have to dehydrate yourself to make weight the worse your performance will be. If Cotto wasn't having weight problems, why did he go to 154? There was more money to be had staying at welterweight or fighting guys coming up from JMW. What do you think?

He wasn't though, he is no bigger now than he was then. Right now he is still a WW fighting at 154 and only came in 1lb less than in the Clottey fight. Cotto actually looked good early on then because of Pac didn't look like the beast as usual because the guys he has fought were nowhere near as good as Pac. He gets 100% credit for that win from me and I consider it one of his best You are saying that Cotto is the same weight on fight night now that he was then and so it doesn't make a difference? Let me know.

I really hope Floyd fans aren't b.s.ing themselves into thinking beating Ortiz is better than beating Cotto. Ortiz has one solid win (Berto) while Cotto had several (Judah, Mosley, Quintana, Malignaggi) Manny didnt beat the 147 Cotto who beat all those guys. He beat the 145 Cotto. You know, the one with no wins at WW :baby:

Barrera, Morales & JMM are cream of the crop of his resume at lower weights & probably his whole career Cotto is a good win for his above 130 resume That is the way I see it.

And then getting KO'd by a C-level journeyman less than a year later. BTW he was 21 when that happened. And had 4 years as a pro under his belt. While Pac was stuck in Asia beating on bums and getting beat on by bums, Floyd in his early 20's was the lineal champ @ Junior Lighweight, beating p4p ranked fighters, top ten contenders and fighters that would later go on to win world titles, doing all of this without a loss. The only active fighters that might have a better resume than Floyd, is B-Hop, Jones Jr. & Holyfield. Pac probably has the 5th best resume among active fighters. So you meant to say because of Pac losses we should forget all his great accomplishments in Floyds favor?:banghead::banghead::pat::pat: How about if somehow Ortiz beat Floyd now and again later by the others, will you forget Floyd other accomplishments as well? Of course NOT! That will only work on Pac right?

You meant to say we just pretend those fights it didn't happen in Floyd's favor? 19 year old boy Pacquiao (without the Olympic training, father and uncle as his trainer since he was a young boy) beating the WBC Champ and lineal champ Sasakul and Barrera that would sh!t on Floyd biggest wins. You want us to forget that? lol Not at all. I said Pac deserves credit. I just think its better to compare the weights they both fought at. Floyd couldn't fight the guys below 126. I mean he could have but what would floyd have done to slower and lighter fighters like barrera or morales back then?

You meant to say we just pretend those fights it didn't happen in Floyd's favor? 19 year old boy Pacquiao (without the Olympic training, father and uncle as his trainer since he was a young boy) beating the WBC Champ and lineal champ Sasakul and Barrera that would sh!t on Floyd biggest wins. You want us to forget that? lol people forget pac is already a multi-weight champion and has accomplished stuff most fighter never did even before he went to the US