PAC's workrate, weight, speed & power

Amazing thing happens when you're not weight draining yourself 17 pounds to make 130. You have more strength and stamina. He's still a tiny WW though. Hell he's small compared to 140 lbers like Bradley and Alexander. Bradley's muscularity makes him appear bigger, but, him and PAC are more or less the same size. Devon on the other hand, is significantly bigger than PAC and Tim. I've seen Devon in person before and was quite surprised at how big he was and in my mind I was thinking how the hell he makes 140lbs.

When I saw the statistics in HBO of PAC's performances it didn't make much sense: Higher the weight class, higher his workrate??!! also older he seems to be more active in the ring, more stamina...with same power & speed!!!, iron chin... Not saying he's on to something, but are there other boxers that have done the same?...not only keeping his power, but getting higher workrate and same Speed?? why not change the name into Floyd? They both started boxing at the age of 16 at 106. Floyd went up higher than Pac and brought along also those attributes you mentioned above remember?

Amazing thing happens when you're not weight draining yourself 17 pounds to make 130. You have more strength and stamina. He's still a tiny WW though. Hell he's small compared to 140 lbers like Bradley and Alexander. http://www.nowboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/Timothy-Bradley-flexing.jpg http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00vn4sncba16q/610x.jpg

I do agree he may have added weight, but it is far from muscle mass (hence him looking less toned than he has been since he days at 122 and below).

Your comparing muscle to water weight. Pac has not gained much muscle mass if any. TBH he is was less defined than he has ever been in the Clottey fight compared to his other fights in his career. If you have ever seen Pac train, he is never lighting weights at all, so that alone makes the "muscle gain" arguement a moot point.

When I saw the statistics in HBO of PAC's performances it didn't make much sense: Higher the weight class, higher his workrate??!! also older he seems to be more active in the ring, more stamina...with same power & speed!!!, iron chin... Not saying he's on to something, but are there other boxers that have done the same?...not only keeping his power, but getting higher workrate and same Speed?? David haye was being knocked out by 4oyear olds who were past it. Now he is heavyweight champ and taking punches from valuev. Thats more suspicious than anything Pac has done.

Yes that's a good example but from 140 to 147 lbs isn't it? not from 130 lbs to 147 lbs... It's just not the same to be in the ring with guys almost 20 lbs bigger and compete in world class level,not only that but demolish them...that's what makes PAC unique IMO. What about the workrate, speed, keeping his power... Pacquiao has been fighting on fight night at mid welter since Morales, it's a difference of 4 lbs since then to the Cotto fight.

If anyone has doen boxing, hitting the target is not as tiring as missing. this. the fact is speed kills. pac is just outblitzing all of his opponents. he's faster than them. even with his decrease in speed, he's faster than 90 percent of the guys at welter. thats what makes the pac/floyd fight so interesting. his speed wont be as big a factor and he will miss, which will hurt his stamina considerably.

DLH, Hatton, and Cotto aren't as quick as lightweights. Thus giving the impression that Pac's speed has actually increased, when in fact he's just fighting slower opponents. If you watch Pac's shadowboxing, he's clearly slower than he once was. When Pac is in the same ring with Floyd, it will be clear that Floyd is much quicker than Pac, despite the fact that Floyd himself has slowed since moving up in weight. /thread.....

Hmmm, you saw the statistics. That is good. Did you see the fight though? I'm sure when a guy is a standing heavy bag, you too can throw punches all night. Pac's other opponents weren't so inactive that they let Pac beat on their arms for 12 full rounds. I'm not talking about the last fight, the Clottey fight wasn't even in the statistics, I'm talking his entire carreer, moving up in weight has gotten better busier....it's odd.

When I saw the statistics in HBO of PAC's performances it didn't make much sense: Higher the weight class, higher his workrate??!! also older he seems to be more active in the ring, more stamina...with same power & speed!!!, iron chin... Not saying he's on to something, but are there other boxers that have done the same?...not only keeping his power, but getting higher workrate and same Speed?? Hmmm, you saw the statistics. That is good. Did you see the fight though? I'm sure when a guy is a standing heavy bag, you too can throw punches all night. Pac's other opponents weren't so inactive that they let Pac beat on their arms for 12 full rounds.

Well since nobody can seem to answer the question or stay on topic. No fighter has ever done it be fore Pac did it. Normally as you get bigger, your activity decreases. I can understand the power increase, but the speed, stamina and punch resistance I don't get. Id understand the punch resistance if he were either still fighting small men or lite puncers. But he's doing this against naturally bigger men and harder punchers. I see a lot of "maybes, it could bes and what ifs" when it comes to these increases. Like the one where "Maybe he feels strong because he doesn't have to cut weight" well Maybe that why he felt weak against Morales also, blood had little to nothing to do with it, no mention of that I see. But if Freddy is such a guru, why didn't he move Manny up sooner if he knew cutting weight made Manny weak? If its now Freddys logic "A guy needs to fight closer to his natural weight" where was this logic before when Manny was "draining"? Seems to me something has changed, ain't no if, ands or maybes about that. Bigger= less active, Heavier= less stamina Bigger and heavier= decrease in speed. That's natural Pac and Roach were concerned with the move up. Heck he wasn't that impressive VS Diaz at the start with power. The speed was there though. Why you think they wanted 145 VS Cotto? Pac was enevr gonna reach 147... Now they realise he can do good here. As he went up, his speed clearly slowed down. Just look at his shadow boxing from 126 to 147. As for less stamina, I am sure he seems mroe tired by round 12 or at the end fo each round tbh. I need to watch Cotto again.

Well if you are referring to Manny keeping his speed and power while moving up in weight, I have address this several times Manny is only 5lbs-7lbs bigger (fight night weight) than he was when he was fighting Morales back in 05, so It only makes sense that he has the same speed he had back then. As far as power, what I see is fighters such as Cotto and Hatton not respecting his power (something Barrera, Morales, and Marquez did) and eventually getting overwhelmed and stopped as a result. As far as workrate, Pac has always had high stamina and punch out put. If you follow the lower weight classes, then you will notice all of those guys have higher punch outputs than guys at WW and Manny has conditioned himself well enough to allow him to maintain it at higher weight classes. FWIW I guarantee you that Paul Williams can go fight at SMW and his punch output will be just as high as it was when he was fighting at 145. Your comparing muscle to water weight.

depends on when they move up some fighters do it for business reasons some must because they outgrow their division when fighters struggle to cut weight, they look better after a jump some good examples have been given

Loss in speed and stamina is a result of adding muscle (something Manny hasn't done) not fighting at your natural weight. Even if you add muscles there are tons of examples throughout all of sports so don't give me that garbage of it being unnatural. Lebron James went from 210lbs to 260lb if not higher and is just as fast, quick, athletic and his stamina is light years better than it was when he first got in the league (I have followed lebron since he was 15 years old btw) and if you want boxing examples Roy looked just as fast, hit just as hard, and had the same punch output at LHW as he did at LMW. Duran had the same punch output, hit even harder, and at 135 and above than he did when he fought at Bantamweight. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Manny is doing something expectional, but not something unprecedented. What are you talking about, have you seen a photo of Manny @ 130 lbs and @ 147 lbs....no muscle gained...wtf?

The one reason why its hard for some people to believe that Pac has been dominating these bigger is because hes short. Short as in 5'4".. Pac use to come down to featherweight and super featherweight but he would starve his self to make those weights. Even at 135 Pac still would have to eat less to make that weight just like with other boxers who have to make the lower weight class.. Pac has had that punch and speed since Featherweight, knocking out and dropping his opponents. During fight night he comes into the ring at around 140-147 which is close to WW, so now thats the reason why Pac fights at Welter, so he doesnt have to starve himself to make weight.. Pac is just a SHORT Welterweight, which to some people its hard to believe hes knocking out bigger opponents cause hes a SHORT DUDE...

Well if you are referring to Manny keeping his speed and power while moving up in weight, I have address this several times Manny is only 5lbs-7lbs bigger (fight night weight) than he was when he was fighting Morales back in 05, so It only makes sense that he has the same speed he had back then. As far as power, what I see is fighters such as Cotto and Hatton not respecting his power (something Barrera, Morales, and Marquez did) and eventually getting overwhelmed and stopped as a result. As far as workrate, Pac has always had high stamina and punch out put. If you follow the lower weight classes, then you will notice all of those guys have higher punch outputs than guys at WW and Manny has conditioned himself well enough to allow him to maintain it at higher weight classes. FWIW I guarantee you that Paul Williams can go fight at SMW and his punch output will be just as high as it was when he was fighting at 145. good observation, Manny has fought in and above 140 for at least the last 6 years, people just don't pay attention to "fight night" weight...

joe calzaghe through a good 950+(nearly 1000) punches against roy jones at lightheavy after just previously coming up from 168 i think it was the most punches calzaghe had ever thrown? but i could be mistaken

Well since nobody can seem to answer the question or stay on topic. No fighter has ever done it be fore Pac did it. Normally as you get bigger, your activity decreases. I can understand the power increase, but the speed, stamina and punch resistance I don't get. Id understand the punch resistance if he were either still fighting small men or lite puncers. But he's doing this against naturally bigger men and harder punchers. I see a lot of "maybes, it could bes and what ifs" when it comes to these increases. Like the one where "Maybe he feels strong because he doesn't have to cut weight" well Maybe that why he felt weak against Morales also, blood had little to nothing to do with it, no mention of that I see. But if Freddy is such a guru, why didn't he move Manny up sooner if he knew cutting weight made Manny weak? If its now Freddys logic "A guy needs to fight closer to his natural weight" where was this logic before when Manny was "draining"? Seems to me something has changed, ain't no if, ands or maybes about that. Bigger= less active, Heavier= less stamina Bigger and heavier= decrease in speed. That's natural Loss in speed and stamina is a result of adding muscle (something Manny hasn't done) not fighting at your natural weight. Even if you add muscles there are tons of examples throughout all of sports so don't give me that garbage of it being unnatural. Lebron James went from 210lbs to 260lb if not higher and is just as fast, quick, athletic and his stamina is light years better than it was when he first got in the league (I have followed lebron since he was 15 years old btw) and if you want boxing examples Roy looked just as fast, hit just as hard, and had the same punch output at LHW as he did at LMW. Duran had the same punch output, hit even harder, and at 135 and above than he did when he fought at Bantamweight. I could go on, but I think you get the point. Manny is doing something expectional, but not something unprecedented.

Well if you are referring to Manny keeping his speed and power while moving up in weight, I have address this several times Manny is only 5lbs-7lbs bigger (fight night weight) than he was when he was fighting Morales back in 05, so It only makes sense that he has the same speed he had back then. As far as power, what I see is fighters such as Cotto and Hatton not respecting his power (something Barrera, Morales, and Marquez did) and eventually getting overwhelmed and stopped as a result. As far as workrate, Pac has always had high stamina and punch out put. If you follow the lower weight classes, then you will notice all of those guys have higher punch outputs than guys at WW and Manny has conditioned himself well enough to allow him to maintain it at higher weight classes. FWIW I guarantee you that Paul Williams can go fight at SMW and his punch output will be just as high as it was when he was fighting at 145.