Manny Pacquiao: true champion? or just a belt winner?

dans16y ago

So much is made of Manny Pacquiao's rise from a 106 pound fighter to the #1 P4P fighter and current junior wleterweight champion, and rightfully so. Pac has faced good competition consistently and seems to get better each time he gets bigger. But one question that should be asked is: What does becoming a seven division world champion mean if you weren't defending your title? Don't get me wrong, at 130 pounds, Manny was a legit champion. He took on the best of the division and defended his title often. But since his move to lightweight, where he won his 5th division crown against a mediocre titlist in David Diaz, it seems defending your crown is not important anymore. It's more about being able to say you're a 7 division champion. Let's be realistic. Manny is already considered a 6 division champ even though all he did at lightweight was beat probably the worst titlist of the bunch and never defended his title. Now let's say he beats Cotto for his 7th division, what are the chances of him actually defending that title? If you think he's going to fight Floyd next, then maybe he will, but then he's neglecting another belt, the Ring belt at 140. Either way, he'll be a 7 division champion that only really actively defended his title in 3 of those divisions (flyweight, super bantam, and super feather). Manny Pacquiao is a great fighter and an ATG already. His accomplishments are tremendous even if holes can be poked in his legacy, but one must ask if Pacquiao wins against Cotto, is Manny Pacquiao really a 7 division champion? Or just a 7 division belt grabber? If there's no distinction to you, I guess I'm just old fashioned.

Comments (20)

blaze778

Manny can claim all the division titles he wants to and while some may be legit titles, there are some paper ones as well (like 122 and 135) and 2 lineal reigns didn't include a belt from a sanctioning body (126 and 140). Manny is looking for the biggest fights at the moment and it's not his fault there are so many different opponents in so many different weight classes. Boxing is not about titles anymore so even if he has a legit claim to 7-division titles, is it really as impressive as Henry Armstrong's 3 division claim. 7-divisions is impressive, but can't top Armstrong who was one title away from winning half of all the weight classes in boxing.

16y ago

fightfan_79

Everybody knows the term 'champion' is thrown around a lil too much. Technically anybody who wins 1 of the 4 belts is a 'champion.' But the man makes the belt, not vice versa. $ of Pac's are lineal. Speaks for itself. Diehards know the difference between paper belts and real titles. Who the fukk gushes over the LW title Pac won? Many fighters who won multiple belts are referred to as 'x-time world champion.' It ain't a big deal if you a fan that knows wasup. Mangler has spoken.....nuff said....:afro: Wassup Mang.....what's new for "quick bites"?

16y ago

MANGLER

16y ago

joelab75

this is his 1st catchweight fight. they wanted the fight to make it look even. PacMan is naturally smaller since he started at 106 lbs. i think he can still make 135 lbs but i'd rather see him in a jr welterweight though. welterweight is too much for him but he can prove me or those haters wrong by taking out Cotto.

16y ago

bojangles1987

Pac hasn't spent much time defending because he has constantly been moving up in weight for most his career. He keeps getting bigger fights at bigger divisions. Since he is going to retire soon, he probably won't ever just sit in a division and beat challengers. He's past that anyway, it's all big fights for another couple years at most it seems.

16y ago

fightfan_79

16y ago

fightfan_79

I respect manny he's a great guy. he does allot for his community and for boxing. He has, but I have yet to see him face an opponent fair and square on his rise to fame... the catch weight syndrome is getting tired... Roach needs to STFU, PAC can handle his own business! Please define "fair and square on his rise to fame"? Ricky Hatton? Morales II? Solis (33-0 when they fought)? Diaz? Marquez II? (I had it a draw) Catchweight syndrome? Far as I can re-call..this is his 1st catchweight fight... My opinion.....Manny can soundly beat any of the 140 lb. fighter...including Bradley, who I said Manny should've taken a summer "keep busy fight", he can't make 135 lb anymore without draining, so that leaves just the WWs...very true that he should fight WHOEVER in their division at that weight....I'm all for that. Manny is fighting for ATG status now...and fighting Bradley, Valero, Holt etc...at the lower weights would benfit Pac how? Potential fights on the horizon...providing he doesn't retire into politics...would be Floyd, Mosely, Marquez III and hell...maybe even Margocheato. Which list of names would look better to "cement your ATG status"?

16y ago

Alibata

Manny Pacquiao is an A level fighter. Oscar De La Hoya could never beat a prime A level fighter. The closest he ever came was Tito Trinidad. Other than that, here's the other A level fighters he fought: Pernell Whitaker (past prime - DLH wins a controversial decision) Julio Cesar Chavez (past prime - DLH wins) Hector Camacho (past prime - DLH wins) Shane Mosley (lost twice) Bernard Hopkins (lost) Floyd Mayweather Jr. (lost) Manny Pacquiao (lost) Manny beating Oscar proved nothing we didn't know already. That is a great list of fighters you have there beating Oscar. I think DlH beat Trinidad though but he deserves the L for running. Manny is most unlikely fighter to be on that list. It is amazing he is on that list with Bernard Hopkins now a light heavyweight and ATG middleweight. Who would have thought they would ever have a common opponent. You gotta give it up to Manny for that.

16y ago

dans

then make the distinction! I don't get why you're so upset about it. yes he is a 6/7 division champ. yes he only ruled 4 divisions. nothing wrong about that. I do make the distintion. And again that doesn't take away from what he does, just puts it into greater perspective.

16y ago

dans

ALL THE CREDIT the truth comes out when you fight PAC...and the truth was: Oscar is a bitch and he was finally exposed Manny Pacquiao is an A level fighter. Oscar De La Hoya could never beat a prime A level fighter. The closest he ever came was Tito Trinidad. Other than that, here's the other A level fighters he fought: Pernell Whitaker (past prime - DLH wins a controversial decision) Julio Cesar Chavez (past prime - DLH wins) Hector Camacho (past prime - DLH wins) Shane Mosley (lost twice) Bernard Hopkins (lost) Floyd Mayweather Jr. (lost) Manny Pacquiao (lost) Manny beating Oscar proved nothing we didn't know already.

16y ago

Pullcounter7451

Oscar was at 146 or 147 on fight night. that was dlh's decision, not anyone else's. can't blame pac for that. Aside from Mosely or Mayweather, I'd say Cotto is the toughest fight for Manny period. exactly... so people need to stop crying. Why is this so tough to understand? I'm not questioning Manny's ability or even his decisions on who he fought. I'm not even questioning the legitimacy or level of challenge associated with his wins. The only thing I'm challenging is the claim of "6/7 division world champion". When, in one of those division (lightweight), he made a pit stop to gobble up another division, and the other (welterweight) his people required a catchweight to snatch another division. IMO, at the end of Manny's career he will be referred to as a 6/7 division champion, but he really only ruled 4 divisions. No? then make the distinction! I don't get why you're so upset about it. yes he is a 6/7 division champ. yes he only ruled 4 divisions. nothing wrong about that.

16y ago

fightfan_79

Why would they have more credibility? I'd take GreatA's opinion over Dan Rafael's any day. And what is Great A's opinion regarding Pac currently being a 6 division "title holder" gunning for history in being the only 7 "division title holder"?

16y ago

myooosic

why stay and make little money defending titles from fighters noone wants to see, wen he can go fight bigger names and get more belts for his resume with waaay bigger payday. manny cant make money alone, his opponent needs to be a fighter people want to see. this is his job ... to make a lot of money. theres no other fighters out there people would pay to watch manny fight except hatton, hoya, cotto, floyd, shane, marquez, margarito, and all the other mainstream dudes people only care about.

16y ago

dans

if it weren't for PAC, that crossdressing bastard would STILL be fighting today...he wouldn't have retired and continued to sidetrack meaningful fights by dangling his name and a massive payday over his targets...i'm glad PAC whooped his ass and give him all the credit for ridding the sport of its #1 attention-whoring cherrypicker I will actually second that. Riding the sport of the annual DLH mega-scam was a big plus for the sport as a whole, even though it hurts with the casual fans. Only thing I disagree with is giving Pac "all the credit". DLH was past it and completely weight drained (even Roach admits that). Still, it was a great performance for Pac.

16y ago

IMDAZED

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=4582020 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0905/boxing.multiple.division.champs/content.1.html Those are just a couple of authorities in sports that I think have a little more credible opinions than yours, mine and anyone else here on these forums...:werd: Why would they have more credibility? I'd take GreatA's opinion over Dan Rafael's any day.

16y ago

fightfan_79

Listen buddy, there's no doubt that Manny has done amazing things, I've already said that. All I'm saying is we should look at the term "6/7 division champion" with a little more perspective. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=rafael_dan&id=4582020 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0905/boxing.multiple.division.champs/content.1.html Those are just a couple of authorities in sports that I think have a little more credible opinions than yours, mine and anyone else here on these forums...:werd:

16y ago

IMDAZED

:pat: Man what an idiot. Stop wasting my time. Yeah, right dude.

16y ago

dans

yeah and immeidately won a belt at 135, then immediately moved up to 147 to fight a 154 lber then immediately went to 140 and deposed the linear champ, and immediately is fighting cotto at WW. so let me ask you this... is cotto a tougher fight than anyone below WW? and does a fight with cotto constitute a bigger challenge than defenses at 130-140? Why is this so tough to understand? I'm not questioning Manny's ability or even his decisions on who he fought. I'm not even questioning the legitimacy or level of challenge associated with his wins. The only thing I'm challenging is the claim of "6/7 division world champion". When, in one of those division (lightweight), he made a pit stop to gobble up another division, and the other (welterweight) his people required a catchweight to snatch another division. IMO, at the end of Manny's career he will be referred to as a 6/7 division champion, but he really only ruled 4 divisions. No?

16y ago

S_A_M_U_R_A_I

You can go ahead and admit you ride his nuts but I'm not a Joe hater at all. I just don't let my feelings blind my logic. Yes it is. But when you add the phrase: "The only way you can beat Calzaghe is to KO him" you are essentially saying that only a 200lb+ man can beat him! WTF!! :lol1::lol1::lol1: Stop deluding yourself! Yeah right, Mr. "Ewww". :pat: Man what an idiot. Stop wasting my time. 100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

16y ago

IMDAZED

And it's not like we don't know you're a Joe hater. So what the ****. Now we're even. You can go ahead and admit you ride his nuts but I'm not a Joe hater at all. I just don't let my feelings blind my logic. But yes, I still stand by what I said before... because it means exactly the same ****ing thing! "I don't see any SMW or light heavy keeping Calzaghe on the canvas" or "no one under cruiser KO's Calzaghe." It's the same thing, isn't it? Yes it is. But when you add the phrase: "The only way you can beat Calzaghe is to KO him" you are essentially saying that only a 200lb+ man can beat him! WTF!! :lol1::lol1::lol1: Stop deluding yourself! I think you should quit with this shit to be honest, it's not cool to thread-shit. Dan made some good points and you're talking garbage about Joe Calzaghe instead and trying to make me out to be an idiot. Grow up man, it's not worth the time. Yeah right, Mr. "Ewww".

16y ago